Pensioners in prison

Recently in the news a 69-year old pensioner, Josephine Rooney, was jailed for refusing to pay her council tax. Why? Because she believed that the conditions of the place she lived in - the constant social unrest, vandalism, drug abuse and crime - meant that her rights as a free human being were slowly being taken away.
Consequently, she was jailed for 3 months and her protest ignored (even though the public responded very angrily).
So, my point is this - did the government do the right thing? Is she just another person evading council tax who should be punished accordingly?
Or are there special circumstances worthy of consideration and responsible thinking?

In every case you read, be it with an old or young person, when not paying their tax everyone has an excuse.
I agree that this does sound very bad and I would not live in those situations but I dont think that not paying your tax as lashing back is the way to go about it.

But often you have to wonder - will any other kind of protest bring it to the public eye?
I do actually agree though - I think she should have been jailed, but I also think the government should accept responsibility for poor living conditions and attempt to rectify the problems.

personally I would go another way around it, then dragging my familt through the court and ending up in prison.
In my experience, acting like that with the council doesnt get you anywhere; doing your research, getting a lawyer and writting letters with loads of big words does!!

Lol, nevertheless - if you can't afford a solicitor and don't know any big words... what other choice do you have?

Sam_Garland wrote:

Lol, nevertheless - if you can't afford a solicitor and don't know any big words... what other choice do you have?

Legal aid, citizens advice, and you can get free advice from a solicitor for 1/2 an hour.

This happened to my mate- well something like this, and she started shouting and making a fuss, they took her to court to get her evicted- I went in to speak with them and was to the point, looked up the laws before hand, and they got off her back.

Patience and persistance goes a long way

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

Patience and persistance goes a long way

That's undeniably true. But again though - this tax evasion is clearly designed to provoke a response from the public and government, rather than just to avoid the cost.

The gopevernment had a responsibility to srve but as long as there are no bodies to look over the gov in a way that would stop all this happening, we are stuck.

To me, the TV licence is the biggest con going.

Angus wrote:

To me, the TV licence is the biggest con going.

Bit off topic, but why's that?

Hold on, will post a thread so as not to take this one off topic. (I am trying (I Know, very trying!) )

Ok, to bring it back on topic -

Angus wrote:

The government had a responsibility to serve but as long as there are no bodies to look over the gov in a way that would stop all this happening, we are stuck.

What do others think? Are the government in the right, or should they accept responsibility and make the appropriate changes?
Was it 'right' to jail Josephine Rooney for protesting because of poor living conditions? Or should everyone pay council tax, regardless of circumstance and other factors?

I find a conversation flows much better if you offer your opinion on the subject and let others debate it.

just a tip.

Rightio - here's my opinion then. I think that the government were in the wrong. Putting the 69-year old in jail for protesting about pretty dreadful living conditions doesn't exactly help their public image.
Failing to commit themselves to solving the problems after jailing her seems like a fairly stupid thing to do as well.
In this, I think the governments actions were very misguided - they've gone for the old 'one size fits all' routine that generally works with the mass majority, but Ive always found very irritating.

I agree but also think that putting her in jail was their own downfall and that is what she wanted. She won and they lost and if more people do the same, they may rethink their policy.

Council tak/charge poll community whetever it is, it is an unjust charge and aimed at the poor.

I think the council tax is just another way of filling the government coffers without putting it back where its need. I used to live in a rented tied cottage (that is belonging to a country estate where the job and the accomadation go hand in hand). WE had to maintain our own verges, rubbish was picked up a mile away, there were no street lights, The buses only stopped if they werent running late,the list goes on...so why was I paying so much in council tax?

When the system changed from rates to council tax, I'm proud to say I was part of the demo's that went on, but most of this Sun reading, big brother watching, baseball cap wearing politically unaware population of this country of ours where happy to chose ignorance and roll over and put up with it. Its no good people moaning now that they have seen the truth behind the rising tax and no returns, if people had been better informed and cared we could have struck when the iron was hot. Its the same with the Criminal Justice Bill but thats a whole different issue.

The combination of accepting these two "reforms" is that the government can levy any level of tax they want and put you in jail if you cant/wont pay. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

This would not apply in France, as pensioners under a certain threshold of income are exempt from housing taxes and television licence. Does that not happen in the UK ? I have not read all the postings yet so forgive me if you have already answered.

Indeed it is.

steerpyke wrote:

I think the council tax is just another way of filling the government coffers without putting it back where its need. I used to live in a rented tied cottage (that is belonging to a country estate where the job and the accomadation go hand in hand). WE had to maintain our own verges, rubbish was picked up a mile away, there were no street lights, The buses only stopped if they werent running late,the list goes on...so why was I paying so much in council tax?

When the system changed from rates to council tax, I'm proud to say I was part of the demo's that went on, but most of this Sun reading, big brother watching, baseball cap wearing politically unaware population of this country of ours where happy to chose ignorance and roll over and put up with it. Its no good people moaning now that they have seen the truth behind the rising tax and no returns, if people had been better informed and cared we could have struck when the iron was hot. Its the same with the Criminal Justice Bill but thats a whole different issue.

The combination of accepting these two "reforms" is that the government can levy any level of tax they want and put you in jail if you cant/wont pay. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

This would not apply in France, as pensioners under a certain threshold of income are exempt from housing taxes and television licence. Does that not happen in the UK ? I have not read all the postings yet so forgive me if you have already answered.

No I dont think it is. I am not sure though.

I would of thought that was a very good idea though.

Yeah, it sounds like an excellent idea - much better than the rubbish we have to put up with and look forward to.

heres a question how many of you don't like the council tax levels but do not vote? Honesty now remember that voting is at an all time low so if everyone just says yes to show themselves in a better light it will invalidate the question.

I missed the last election unfortunately, as I hadn't then reached 18. But I damn well plan to vote at the next one!

Actually this is a subject that I feel very strongly about.

As a woman looking back in history and the war we had to fight to get anywhere near a voting station is bizare, but I am very happy and thankful that I now have the right to vote, but yet now both women and men choose not to vote.

I personally feel that if you do not vote you have no right whatsoever to moan about anything that happens regarding your town/county and country.

If you want your voice heard then you MUST vote.

Sam_Garland wrote:

I missed the last election unfortunately, as I hadn't then reached 18. But I damn well plan to vote at the next one!

Good I am glad to hear that. do your friend your age plan to? I know I was the only one of my friends when 18 to vote.
And as a young person why do you think people do not vote at your age? Is is because they think it is boring or just dont understand?

absolutley, even a deliberatly wasting a vote is like a vote of no confidence and still a way of making a statement as the % of wasted votes is recorded and most are deliberate.

oopps double post, this follows SLB's first post of the two to make sense

In NI we don't pay council tax but we pay rates instead, which are a bit of a joke to be honest, the government are trying to put rates up, introduce water charges but at the same time they don't seem to realise that NI has one of the highest costs of living the UK and yet our average incomes are far lower than that of a person living in England for example.

But in fairness, you have to pay tax wither you like or not, so in my opinion the government didn't really have any option but to prosecute the pensioner. It's unfair for the rest of us to pay tax and have a pensionner refuse to pay it. It was a PR disaster for the government but what's new. Do the crime, do the time.