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 Banks & Charges

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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 21:34

I heard on the radio it could mean banking charges for everyone could amount to about 2-300 per year.

It will not be a red herring, banks all around the world charge for those services.

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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 21:38

I think Drew is probably right, there will be some "free" banks or accounts in the future but I would imagine they will have limited features (only online banking available for a start and probably limited/no overdraft facilities).
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helencbradshaw

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 22:38

I have one of these fee paying accts at moment...15 a month gives me Aa cover, travel insurance, mobile phone insurance and another pile of little bens here and there.

I took it as the AA and Travel Insurance justify the cost on their own.


So for the Bankers...do you think those accounts will have to pay for withdrawals or are they deemed to pay for themselves with the fee (as obviously they get the insurances and memberships at a better cost than joe Public can.
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 22:50

They will either attract fee's for dd's etc, or they will put the monthly fee up.

I recon they will make accounts that give you nothing but free transactions for your 15.

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The Polar One

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 22:53

Bank charges are hypocritical. If you want to look at one great big fraud you need look no further than 'fractional reserve banking', and the way in which commercial banks use our money, multiply it ten fold, and lend it to other people. They profit from interest rates, fees, and charges on all this debt.

The question I wonder is why do they allow people to go over their limits? The system should be set up so that if you try to spend more money than has been agreed available to you, then it just doesn't work. Embarrassing moment at the till, red letter through the post. But that should be the rules. I can only think they allow it for the extra income.

Free banking should be a right. Money afterall is worthless in itself. Or at least it should be. The government is just as bad with over 500 billion of debt. Who do they owe? Investors (including banks). How do they maintain interest payments? Taxes. Us. Muggins. (which ironically includes the investors)

Bank charges are not fair. Neither is the entire banking system. Our entire economy is built on debt so that we can grow at an accelerated speed beyond our means. If lending gets out of hand, then the music stops and boom, we get a recession. We live off the people with debts, and when things go sour it is them that get burnt. If you want a fair and stable system we need to overhaul the whole thing.

Being someone that can manage my money and so doesn't get bank charges I couldn't give a toss whether they exist or not. But I demand free banking. The government should provide free banking without interest (and I mean for savers). Making money from money is a swindle.
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Wed 08 Aug 2007, 23:33

The Polar One wrote:
Bank charges are hypocritical. If you want to look at one great big fraud you need look no further than 'fractional reserve banking', and the way in which commercial banks use our money, multiply it ten fold, and lend it to other people. They profit from interest rates, fees, and charges on all this debt.


Which pays for pensions, interest on savings, amongst other things...
Quote :

The question I wonder is why do they allow people to go over their limits? The system should be set up so that if you try to spend more money than has been agreed available to you, then it just doesn't work. Embarrassing moment at the till, red letter through the post. But that should be the rules. I can only think they allow it for the extra income.

Cheques. The main reson people get charges is writing cheques, KNOWING they will go overdrawn. Plus, most shops will not check for available funsd below a certain limit. Sometimes 50, sometimes 100.

Quote :

Free banking should be a right. Money afterall is worthless in itself. Or at least it should be. The government is just as bad with over 500 billion of debt. Who do they owe? Investors (including banks). How do they maintain interest payments? Taxes. Us. Muggins. (which ironically includes the investors)

Why should a company providing a service provide it for free? Every singe banking transaction costs money. Why should that be a right?
Quote :

Bank charges are not fair. Neither is the entire banking system. Our entire economy is built on debt so that we can grow at an accelerated speed beyond our means. If lending gets out of hand, then the music stops and boom, we get a recession. We live off the people with debts, and when things go sour it is them that get burnt. If you want a fair and stable system we need to overhaul the whole thing.
Why should someone get to abuse someone elses money? I have yet to hear anyone give a reason why that should be OK.

Oh, and we had recessions WAY before banking becamse a major commercial venture.

Quote :

Being someone that can manage my money and so doesn't get bank charges I couldn't give a toss whether they exist or not. But I demand free banking. The government should provide free banking without interest (and I mean for savers). Making money from money is a swindle.

You may demand it, but you aint gonna get it.

And how can the governtment afford that after you JUST pointed out its debt problems?

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:03

Banking is highly competitive. If some banks start charging, others will try and capitilise on it.

If the banks had fair charges in the first place they wouldnt have to come up with another way of replacing immoral income.
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:07

WormThatTurned wrote:
Banking is highly competitive. If some banks start charging, others will try and capitilise on it.

If the banks had fair charges in the first place they wouldnt have to come up with another way of replacing immoral income.

Yeah, thats why when the Credit Card charges were capped they ALL introduced balance transfer fee's. Oh yeah, and why they have banded together to go to court.

They will all introduce it. Business customers pay these charges already, it won;t take long.

And immoral? I find nothing immoral in telling someone when they open a facility that if they abuse it they will be subject to a penalty, and detailing what that is.

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:08

I think the fraud bit is over Drews nut. If only he knew how banks work around the world.
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:10

Phil, unless you can actually post something that will further the debate on this topic, just don't.

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Ziggy!



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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:14

69% of money that goes through American national banks in Miami is drug related! Not to clever is it.
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:35

The penalty isnt immoral if its a fair penalty in line with the offence but in a lot of cases it isnt. its disproportionate. Thats why this thing has come to a head.

And immoral the way they take advantage of these charges to maximise income to the full.

I dont believe ALL banks will withdraw free banking, In my opinion its a non-issue. But hey, I may be proved wrong.

Has been known, occasionally Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:38

Ziggy! wrote:
69% of money that goes through American national banks in Miami is drug related! Not to clever is it.

FFS.

a) Doesn't further the discussion
b) No sources quoted as per usual
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:40

WormThatTurned wrote:
The penalty isnt immoral if its a fair penalty in line with the offence but in a lot of cases it isnt. its disproportionate. Thats why this thing has come to a head.

And immoral the way they take advantage of these charges to maximise income to the full.

I dont believe ALL banks will withdraw free banking, In my opinion its a non-issue. But hey, I may be proved wrong.

Has been known, occasionally Smile

But what is a fair penalty?

The cost of the transaction plus interest on the loan until it's paid back? A nominal fee of about a fiver? Something else?

How much does an automated transaction cost a bank these days?
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:41

Working within various parts of three different banks, I can assure you that the income they generate does not come from these fee's, I don;t know how else to say that.

The only free banking that may still exist will be the basic account all banks have to offer under the law. However that will allow money to be paid in then taken out (from only their machines) and nothing else.

But then I suppose we will just have to wait and see about that one.

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:41

Ziggy! wrote:
69% of money that goes through American national banks in Miami is drug related! Not to clever is it.

I didnt think the average drug dealer had a savings account at the BOA Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:45

We have actually been somewhat fortunate in this country with regard to charges...i.e. keep the account in order and we have free banking...not like other nations we could mention. In aus, people wont even own a cheque book because of charges.

It was inevitable the banks would react to the situation they are currently in. It's a shame, but it is some what understandable (but I am not sure it will educate many)
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:46

Thank you Helen.

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:48

You're welcome...can I have a free account now with your bank now, for life...!..I'll trade for cheap accomm Laughing
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:49

I was always under the impression banks made their money by investing customers money on the stockmarkets ?

I read that these penalty charges add up to 5 billion which isnt that much in the wider scheme of things.

So why, if these charges are set at a fair rate, does free banking have to be withdrawn ?

Greed !!
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:51

helencbradshaw wrote:
You're welcome...can I have a free account now with your bank now, for life...!..I'll trade for cheap accomm Laughing

I work for an Aussie Bank - they will be the first in line to start charging!!!

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:52

..it is about value of individual customers...though..(I expect Drew will correct me here if I am mistaken)

but the average wage going in...with a heap of monthly transactions going out...well that wont earn a fortune for the bank...(I know my wages go in and out again in the same day..!!!). So the average current account probably contains very little...! It's the retention, savings accounts etc...that start to build the value of that customer to a bank ( I imagine)
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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:53

drewboy wrote:
helencbradshaw wrote:
You're welcome...can I have a free account now with your bank now, for life...!..I'll trade for cheap accomm Laughing

I work for an Aussie Bank - they will be the first in line to start charging!!!

bloody NAB! lol!

I am with the Lloyds, I am hoping that perhaps as they are quite traditional...that they might not catch on for a while...false hope I know..!


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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:53

WormThatTurned wrote:
I was always under the impression banks made their money by investing customers money on the stockmarkets ?

I read that these penalty charges add up to 5 billion which isnt that much in the wider scheme of things.

So why, if these charges are set at a fair rate, does free banking have to be withdrawn ?

Greed !!

Because these are SEPERATE units in what are bigger, companies!! The retail banking section has to balance the books the same as the others.

You don't see Virgin Atlantic making a loss because Virgin Wines is doing well, do you? It;s exactly the same thing.

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PostSubject: Re: Banks & Charges   Thu 09 Aug 2007, 00:57

helencbradshaw wrote:


bloody NAB! lol!

I am with the Lloyds, I am hoping that perhaps as they are quite traditional...that they might not catch on for a while...false hope I know..!

Thats the one! (though I am hoping they will transfer me to NZ (where EVERY TRANSACTION costs customers) at some point int he future.....!)

And are you mad? LTSB will be next in line after NAB does it!

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