GUIDES IN MULTIPLE CATEGORIES

I notice that their are quite a few Guides who are guiding in multiple categories.

I wondered what the reason for this was, as when I was Guiding dooyoo seemed to be very keen that this practice would stop, and that each Category would have an individual Guide.

I dislike the practice for a number of reasons. Guides recommendations for Crowns carry much weight with dooyoo. To say anything other than this is disingenuous. If a Guide doesn't happen to like a particular member on a personal level (for whatever reason) then the chances of that member receiving a Crown in the categories they are Guiding are much reduced.

Also, I feel it gives the individual Guide too much power and prominence at the site. But hey, that's just me. Dooyoo (as always) will do what they think best!

From memory most of the time it is lack of people applying and any multiple categories was only meant to be a short term thing which just goes on and on, as you will see from another post Sports has been vacant since the end of October, someone is probably covering but at the moment following the new payment system most guides are struggling to cover their own categories let alone read in others on a regular basis.

More applicants to Jared would certainly help.

atticusuk wrote:

From memory most of the time it is lack of people applying and any multiple categories was only meant to be a short term thing which just goes on and on, as you will see from another post Sports has been vacant since the end of October, someone is probably covering but at the moment following the new payment system most guides are struggling to cover their own categories let alone read in others on a regular basis.

More applicants to Jared would certainly help.

It's been a "short term thing" for as long as I can remember, and I have a LONG memory!
Is the will there to really sort it out, or is the same old muddling along as per usual?

some categories don't get high volume of reviews however, and if these are doubled up it isnt the end of the world

I could probably handle more than one category most of the time, for example. (well unless if was films or one of the busier categories)

But yes, as per usual, people can apply via the normal channels to dooyoo and express an interest you never know what's around the corner.

helencbradshaw wrote:

some categories don't get high volume of reviews however, and if these are doubled up it isnt the end of the world

I could probably handle more than one category most of the time, for example. (well unless if was films or one of the busier categories)

But yes, as per usual, people can apply via the normal channels to dooyoo and express an interest you never know what's around the corner.

Hardly the point Helen. I agree to a certain extent that some categories are easy peasy to cover as they are so quiet. But why aren't the vacancies being more aggressively marketed by dooyoo on the Community Page? (Oh, sorry. You wouldn't know that!)

In the past the Guides themselves used to approach members they thought would make good Guides, and ask them to apply. Is that happening?

Oh, and has the idea of "Guide Rotation" now been totally abandoned? I know dooyoo were never too keen on it in the first instance, and neither am I to be totally honest. But some of the Guides now seem to be becoming totally entrenched (as I was accused of being when I was a Guide) and more of a permanent fixture than the dooyoo staff themselves!

I think guides should play a role in highlighting people who could do the job to Dooyoo or to encourage them to apply and then it is up to Dooyoo to decide who to appoint. I know I suggested a name for sports to Dooyoo.

So is the lack of new Guides because nobody is interested, or is it they don't have the required experience? Or is it because very few members actually know that Guides are currently required?

I would be more likely do something like this if I actually knew what a guide has to do (other than get abused by Phil).

It would be good if that was posted somewhere in the community pages.

Aparently Jared is working on the guide situation today so maybe some appointments will happen.

koshkha wrote:

I would be more likely do something like this if I actually knew what a guide has to do (other than get abused by Phil).

Ah shoot. That's half the fun of Guiding, so it is.

kenjohn wrote:

In the past the Guides themselves used to approach members they thought would make good Guides, and ask them to apply. Is that happening?

Well personally I dont approach individuals and ask them to be guides as I think it is potentially a crass idea and cliquey - never been into this its "who you know" stuff - (and it's not on the dooyoo expectation for guides in any case) but to confirm what Richard has already said yes Jared has names and is looking to make appointments, and so if people are interested then approach dooyoo, and you never know.

However if an individual approached me in my PM about guiding if they were interested, then I would gladly..er...guide..them by answering any queries..

So if there are people out there who want to do it, then the first step is tell someone!

I'm with Helen on this one. I ended up with 2 quiet categories atthe behest of dooyoo. I said I didn't mind which one and got given both. With about 4 ops between them a week (if I'm lucky) it's hardly going to bias the crown nominations. Further, I do actually resent the fact that there is an implication that bias would EVER affect our judgement (on more than a subconcious level which can never be ruled out). I'd hope anyone selected as a guide would be above that.

I don't make direct approaches to people although have put a few unsolicited names forward to Dooyoo for them to do with what they will. These have all been people that I don't know and have never spoken to - I've just read their ops and comments.

Guide rotation has not reared its head since you left Ken. I don't think anyone is entrenched though. I'm not up on this but I'm not certain that anyone is there who pre-dates the "debacle" (and no I'm categorically NOT raising that point - it's just a time marker)... If the length of time between that and now is long enough for entrenchment then I stand accused. Anyone want my categories???

helencbradshaw wrote:

Well personally I dont approach individuals and ask them to be guides as I think it is potentially a crass idea and cliquey - never been into this its "who you know" stuff

That's plain daft! (My opinion) Guides are appointed in the first place BECAUSE they are good members, and know the site and members well. Members naturally become friendly with each other, even more so since private guestbooks were introduced at dooyoo. I presume the Guestbooks were introduced precisely for this reason. To make the site more "user friendly" and enhance the community side of things.
There's nothing underhand, crass, or "cliquey" about a current Guide approaching say a good writer in a particular Category to let them know there's a vacancy for a Guide in that Category, and to ask would they be interested in applying. It's just common sense, and helps dooyoo out no end.

I'm NOT saying that Guides should have any hand in the appointment of the person. That's down to dooyoo, and always has been, But there's nothing wrong in a friendly approach, especially if there's a crying need for a Guide in the Category.

CareBear wrote:

Further, I do actually resent the fact that there is an implication that bias would EVER affect our judgement (on more than a subconcious level which can never be ruled out). I'd hope anyone selected as a guide would be above that.

I'm not aware that I actually MADE any sort of implication of bias in any of my postings. When I left as a Guide the feeling was that 6 months was more than enough for anyone to be in the role, and that after that they should step down and give someone else a shot at the position.
As you well know, I didn't personally agree with that, as I feel there's no substitute for experience.
What I am asking is if that was the feeling then, has it now changed, as certain of the Guides certainly DO appear to be making their positions permanent and becoming "entrenched". (My opinion)

CareBear wrote:

Anyone want my categories???

Nope. Certainly not me. I'm enjoying the freedom of expression that being an "ordinary" member gives me far too much, and not having to religiously toe the line in regard to dooyoo policy as I felt I was almost obliged to as a Guide.

kenjohn wrote:

CareBear wrote:

Further, I do actually resent the fact that there is an implication that bias would EVER affect our judgement (on more than a subconcious level which can never be ruled out). I'd hope anyone selected as a guide would be above that.

I'm not aware that I actually MADE any sort of implication of bias in any of my postings.

This is the bit I'm referring to:

kenjohn wrote:

I dislike the practice for a number of reasons. Guides recommendations for Crowns carry much weight with dooyoo. To say anything other than this is disingenuous. If a Guide doesn't happen to like a particular member on a personal level (for whatever reason) then the chances of that member receiving a Crown in the categories they are Guiding are much reduced.

In answer to your question

kenjohn wrote:

What I am asking is if that was the feeling then, has it now changed, as certain of the Guides certainly DO appear to be making their positions permanent and becoming "entrenched". (My opinion)

There's no question of rotation being raised at the moment, as I said last night, it's just not been discussed beyond the conversation that started and ended around your time. I'm not sure what you mean by guids seemingly making their positions entrenched. What does a guide do to do this? I, and I'm sure most, would be more than happy to be told that dooyoo are replacing us overnight. Those that wouldn't, I'm guessing, would just like a little more warning. Am I being blind to something?

kenjohn wrote:

If a Guide doesn't happen to like a particular member on a personal level (for whatever reason) then the chances of that member receiving a Crown in the categories they are Guiding are much reduced.

I stand by this. I know it's only my own opinion (but I'm entitled to it!) but I've seen a number of reviews from certain members that I PERSONALLY thought were "stick out" Crowns.
Before you say it, I KNOW that this is subjective and very hard to quantify, and that different folks will have different ideas about what makes for a Crownworthy review and what doesn't. But I honestly feel that there are quite a lot of reviews that SHOULD have received Crowns and didn't. (I'm NOT talking about my own reviews by the way. I wouldn't be so crass!)

I've had excellent members contact me on a private level and ask me if I knew what was going on, and why their personal Crown quota had reduced so drastically, especially since the reviews were equally as good (if not better) than ones that had received Crowns in the past.

So the question that has to be asked is what's changed? Is it that the quality of reviews at the site has suddenly taken a quantum leap, and thus it's now harder to get a Crown? Personally I don't think so, but hey, that's only my opinion.

That only leaves the possibility (and note I use the word POSSIBILITY) that some of the Guides simply don't like the style of certain writers, or are harder in judging the quality of their reviews (for whatever reason!) than they are on a general level. This may (or may not) be at a subconscious level, but it's fairly obvious to me that it's the case.

We all know that a Guides' Crown recommendation carries a lot of weight with the dooyoo staff, and that it's rare for their recommendations to be ignored. Perhaps it's a case of their recommendations carrying a wee bit TOO much weight!

kenjohn wrote:

kenjohn wrote:

If a Guide doesn't happen to like a particular member on a personal level (for whatever reason) then the chances of that member receiving a Crown in the categories they are Guiding are much reduced.

I stand by this. I know it's only my own opinion (but I'm entitled to it!) but I've seen a number of reviews from certain members that I PERSONALLY thought were "stick out" Crowns.
Before you say it, I KNOW that this is subjective and very hard to quantify, and that different folks will have different ideas about what makes for a Crownworthy review and what doesn't. But I honestly feel that there are quite a lot of reviews that SHOULD have received Crowns and didn't. (I'm NOT talking about my own reviews by the way. I wouldn't be so crass!)

I've had excellent members contact me on a private level and ask me if I knew what was going on, and why their personal Crown quota had reduced so drastically, especially since the reviews were equally as good (if not better) than ones that had received Crowns in the past.

So the question that has to be asked is what's changed? Is it that the quality of reviews at the site has suddenly taken a quantum leap, and thus it's now harder to get a Crown? Personally I don't think so, but hey, that's only my opinion.

That only leaves the possibility (and note I use the word POSSIBILITY) that some of the Guides simply don't like the style of certain writers, or are harder in judging the quality of their reviews (for whatever reason!) than they are on a general level. This may (or may not) be at a subconscious level, but it's fairly obvious to me that it's the case.

We all know that a Guides' Crown recommendation carries a lot of weight with the dooyoo staff, and that it's rare for their recommendations to be ignored. Perhaps it's a case of their recommendations carrying a wee bit TOO much weight!

Guides recommendations do carry weight Ken but you seem to be saying that members are not getting crowns because Guides are somehow saying so and that is not the case. If not, as I have said before crowns are given in my category that I have not nominated and I am sure that is the case in many categories so despite my nomination having weight, it is not the be all and end all.

You know better than anyone that Guides do not distribute the crowns and if certain members think they are being missed then it is dooyoo they should be contacting them directly.

Due to the fact that niminations are not visible on the site there is always the assumption by some members that if a review does not crown then the guide did not nominate it but I can recall two instances where I nominated a motors review and it never got crowned on the following week and that was only because I went back and checked, now I have no idea if the reviews I nominate eventually crown or not as I no longer go back and chack, I nominate those I think deserve it and leave the rest to Dooyoo.

I do wonder in the current climate whether a lot of nominating is happening amongst the membership, I checked on a recent review of mine that had half a dozen comments claiming to have nominated it and when I queried it with Dooyoo I was told it only actually had one nomination. This would echo a similar thing I was told be a previous occupant of Jared job. People lie.

kenjohn wrote:

I stand by this. I know it's only my own opinion (but I'm entitled to it!) but I've seen a number of reviews from certain members that I PERSONALLY thought were "stick out" Crowns.
Before you say it, I KNOW that this is subjective and very hard to quantify, and that different folks will have different ideas about what makes for a Crownworthy review and what doesn't. But I honestly feel that there are quite a lot of reviews that SHOULD have received Crowns and didn't. (I'm NOT talking about my own reviews by the way. I wouldn't be so crass!)

I've had excellent members contact me on a private level and ask me if I knew what was going on, and why their personal Crown quota had reduced so drastically, especially since the reviews were equally as good (if not better) than ones that had received Crowns in the past.

So the question that has to be asked is what's changed? Is it that the quality of reviews at the site has suddenly taken a quantum leap, and thus it's now harder to get a Crown? Personally I don't think so, but hey, that's only my opinion.

That only leaves the possibility (and note I use the word POSSIBILITY) that some of the Guides simply don't like the style of certain writers, or are harder in judging the quality of their reviews (for whatever reason!) than they are on a general level. This may (or may not) be at a subconscious level, but it's fairly obvious to me that it's the case.

We all know that a Guides' Crown recommendation carries a lot of weight with the dooyoo staff, and that it's rare for their recommendations to be ignored. Perhaps it's a case of their recommendations carrying a wee bit TOO much weight!

Ken, if you think a review is a STICKOUT crown then as a reader and a member you can simply nominate it...!

If you are getting so many members contacting you about their depreciation in crowns then perhaps you should direct them to dooyoo to discover the reason fortheir now lack of crowns. After all in "the past" 150 word reviews got crowned so perhaps a change isnt a bad thing.

Frankly though, I am a bit sick of having my objectiveness called into question, simply for giving up a bit of my free time to commit to reading other people's reviews - especially when I have now publicly stated I won't blindly recommend people to be guides as I do not think that is in any way objective. I certainly don't think, that in 7 years of writing on these sites that I have become harsher in nominating, however I DO know that I could earn far more money in a weekend by writing say a two hundred 150-word reviews on all the hotels I have stayed in alone in the last two years but I do give up my time freely to read everything in my category and feel I am as knowledgeable as anyone could be within that category but number one is objective.

So I won't be recommending members to be guides when those members havent even expressed a wish to be a guide any time soon (as *I* think it is crass!) nor will i be nominating reviews just because other people before me have left CRASS "nominated" comments!

kenjohn wrote:

In the past the Guides themselves used to approach members they thought would make good Guides, and ask them to apply. Is that happening?

When I was giving up guiding I approached two people I thought would be excellent guides for my categories. They were really interested and hadn't thought about applying - not really crossed their minds and they weren't really aware there was a way of going about it - once I had their interest I passed their names to Jared. One got the post and one didn't so Dooyoo do get the final say.

I think this is a great way of recruiting new guides as there are lots of willing and able people out there, but they just don't think about doing it. A nudge from someone else is all they need usually to realise they would like it. I think it really helps Dooyoo and as long as you don't promise the new recruit a guiding posiiton and make them realise it is down to dooyoo for final say they are quite happy - in my experience.

TO WENDYBULL

Thank you so much for the balanced and common sense approach you showed to this topic in your last post.
This is EXACTLY what I was talking about, and it's nice to see that an ex-Guide agrees with me.

helencbradshaw wrote:

If you are getting so many members contacting you about their depreciation in crowns then perhaps you should direct them to dooyoo to discover the reason fortheir now lack of crowns.

Oh yeah. People are very likely to do that I’m sure. It simply sounds like a “whinge”. You seem to be missing my point. What I’m talking about here is members who in the past received MANY Crowns for their reviews, who are now receiving very FEW, despite the fact their style of writing, length of review, content, etc, being the same.

I also emphasise I’m NOT referring to myself. I’ve recently drastically changed my approach to dooyoo in regard to quantity of reviews posted, and the style, content, and length of reviews. (Most of the time) This is to fit in more with what dooyoo seem to want from members these days; quantity and not quality.

What I AM talking about is members who were in the past nearly sure of a Crown for a review they wrote in a particular Category, and now don’t receive Crowns for the same quality of review.

Something has to have changed, so what is it?

helencbradshaw wrote:

Ken, if you think a review is a STICKOUT crown then as a reader and a member you can simply nominate it...!

I do just that Helen. But not being a Guide anymore my nomination obviously doesn't carry the same weight as it did in the past!

helencbradshaw wrote:

So I won't be recommending members to be guides when those members havent even expressed a wish to be a guide any time soon (as *I* think it is crass!)

Did I ever even SUGGEST recommending members to dooyoo as Guides who haven’t shown any wish to be a Guide. That’s NOT what I said Helen. I said that I had approached members in the past who I thought would make good Guides (on a personal level) to see if they would be interested in a Guide’s position. If they then expressed an interest I then told them what Categories were open, and asked them to contact dooyoo. I see that as HELPFUL to dooyoo, the member concerned who might like to be a Guide, and to the site as a whole.

I may be wrong, but isn’t that partly what being a Guide is all about?