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 Jamie's Fowl Dinners

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plipplop

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 16:27

spoilt_little_brat wrote:
I agree with Wendy. I can easily make a chicken last for X amount of people, but when shopping I would always go for the cheaper chicken.

I can't taste the difference between a 2.99 chicken and a 5.99 chicken so I will always go for the cheaper. Makes sence to me.

It doesn't make sense to me. You don't have to buy the 5.99 option in a supermarket. Try local butchers or other local providers. Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week. I'm sorry, it's just laziness. It's not an issue of money or budget.
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 17:52

plipplop wrote:
spoilt_little_brat wrote:
I agree with Wendy. I can easily make a chicken last for X amount of people, but when shopping I would always go for the cheaper chicken.

I can't taste the difference between a 2.99 chicken and a 5.99 chicken so I will always go for the cheaper. Makes sence to me.

It doesn't make sense to me. You don't have to buy the 5.99 option in a supermarket. Try local butchers or other local providers. Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week. I'm sorry, it's just laziness. It's not an issue of money or budget.

So the other week, they starve ? Razz
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WendyBull

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 18:55

fizzywizzy wrote:
plipplop wrote:
WendyBull wrote:
Maybe you are right - but in terms of health I have never had any problems with it effecting us becasue of what the chicken has been fed on while it was alive.

Yet.

Exactly - healthy young people contracted CJD after years of eating infected meat. Meat that didn't make them throw up right after eating it or put them on the loo for hours on end, but food that seemed OK at the time.

It proves that what goes around, comes around

I had not heard any stories like this but if it was the case - surely the Food Health Agency (if there is such a thing) would be doing something about it by now? If it has not been proved scientifically that this was the cause of the people getting sick years later then how do we know for sure that was the cause?

I am not being argumentative or pig headed just curious.
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 20:48

WendyBull wrote:
fizzywizzy wrote:
plipplop wrote:
WendyBull wrote:
Maybe you are right - but in terms of health I have never had any problems with it effecting us becasue of what the chicken has been fed on while it was alive.

Yet.

Exactly - healthy young people contracted CJD after years of eating infected meat. Meat that didn't make them throw up right after eating it or put them on the loo for hours on end, but food that seemed OK at the time.

It proves that what goes around, comes around

I had not heard any stories like this but if it was the case - surely the Food Health Agency (if there is such a thing) would be doing something about it by now? If it has not been proved scientifically that this was the cause of the people getting sick years later then how do we know for sure that was the cause?

I am not being argumentative or pig headed just curious.

You didn't hear of CJD?

Or you've heard nothing about this where chicken is concerned?

It took years for the adverse effects of eating infected beef to come to light.

Wouldn't you rather by a little less good chicken than more chicken that's pumped up with water to increase its weight?

And it was proven that infected beef was the cause of those people contracting CJD. These young people went to the same schools, or their family meat was bought at the same butchers. There are distinct patterns amongst those stricken by this really frightening disease. Is that what you want for your children?
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 20:49

WormThatTurned wrote:
plipplop wrote:
spoilt_little_brat wrote:
I agree with Wendy. I can easily make a chicken last for X amount of people, but when shopping I would always go for the cheaper chicken.

I can't taste the difference between a 2.99 chicken and a 5.99 chicken so I will always go for the cheaper. Makes sence to me.

It doesn't make sense to me. You don't have to buy the 5.99 option in a supermarket. Try local butchers or other local providers. Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week. I'm sorry, it's just laziness. It's not an issue of money or budget.

So the other week, they starve ? Razz

Because chicken's the only food?
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WendyBull

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 21:02

No, I had heard of CJD actually and the effects it had but did not follow the story too closely. I thought that CJD only came from beef though - not chicken.

I also thought it was due to a disease that the cows had and not down to how they were kept while they were waiting to be slaughtered.

I do buy the fillets that have water added to make them fatter because it still tastes OK (not so dry actually as other chicken) and they are a reasonable price when you have a lot to cook for. I don't eat chicken all the time and we regularly have other meats like mince and pork.

I feel you are coming across a little aggressive Fizzy! I did state I was just curious and not looking for an argument. Of course I want my children to be healthy and asking otherwise is a bit offensive actually.
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 21:09

fizzywizzy wrote:
WormThatTurned wrote:
plipplop wrote:
spoilt_little_brat wrote:
I agree with Wendy. I can easily make a chicken last for X amount of people, but when shopping I would always go for the cheaper chicken.

I can't taste the difference between a 2.99 chicken and a 5.99 chicken so I will always go for the cheaper. Makes sence to me.

It doesn't make sense to me. You don't have to buy the 5.99 option in a supermarket. Try local butchers or other local providers. Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week. I'm sorry, it's just laziness. It's not an issue of money or budget.

So the other week, they starve ? Razz

Because chicken's the only food?


NO it was a light hearted quip at Plipplops comment "Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week."

Stop being so cantankerous Fizzy.
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 21:14

I'm not cantankerous at all. It just bugs me that people are happy to eat crap food and to feed it to their kids. There's no need.

It riles me to hear people complain that decent food is too expensive but get them to give up one of their cars, or cancel their Sky sub or their season ticket and you'll soon see that people's priority is not their health.

You can get water out of the tap. Its not meant to be pumped into meat. You're paying more than you even should because the weight of the meat is artificially increased to make it look like you're getting more.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 21:37

plipplop wrote:
spoilt_little_brat wrote:
I agree with Wendy. I can easily make a chicken last for X amount of people, but when shopping I would always go for the cheaper chicken.

I can't taste the difference between a 2.99 chicken and a 5.99 chicken so I will always go for the cheaper. Makes sence to me.

It doesn't make sense to me. You don't have to buy the 5.99 option in a supermarket. Try local butchers or other local providers. Or instead of having a 2.99 chicken every week, have the 5.99 every other week. I'm sorry, it's just laziness. It's not an issue of money or budget.

It's far from being lazy and it has everything to do with budget.

And what about people that do not have a butcher near them?

I don't eat chicken every week as a rule, but when I do I live by my means and buy the cheaper chicken.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 21:48

fizzywizzy wrote:
I'm not cantankerous at all. It just bugs me that people are happy to eat crap food and to feed it to their kids. There's no need.


It riles me to hear people complain that decent food is too expensive but get them to give up one of their cars, or cancel their Sky sub or their season ticket and you'll soon see that people's priority is not their health.

You can get water out of the tap. Its not meant to be pumped into meat. You're paying more than you even should because the weight of the meat is artificially increased to make it look like you're getting more.

I get your point about sky/ cars etc, (and would like to point out we don't have Sky and do need two cars) but I still really feel that 'decent food' options, should be a lot lower in price.

Is it not something stupid like a few pence that the farmers get paid per chicken, so why do the supermarkets then feel the need to charge so much?

And you are far from in the position to comment on what others feed their children /family.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 22:07

It bugs me a little bit that here is an assumption that because people feed their kids "crap food" they are somehow bad parents who are ignorant and live in shell suits with their socks tucked in their boots. If you think I can afford to buy free range chicken, organic bananas, fairtrade coffee, ethically sourced clothing while meanwhile avoiding Nestle and just about every other multi-national in existence you are wrong. You talk about good food as if it is accessible to all. In the real world it is not. I shop at Iceland, I shop at Supermarkets and no I do not hunt round my local butchers, farms etc but when I have they are simply not cheap enough for a family of six to buy regularly.

Like it or not the reality is that organic, free range and good quality food costs A LOT more money. I try to avoid crap for my kids, I look at the ingredients on packets, I avoid E numbers and artificial colours but can I afford to buy sandwich fillings that cost three times the price and only last a day when the processed stuff is three for a fiver? No I cannot. You speak as if people who shop in Iceland etc are ignorant but trust me the majority of us know were are food is coming.

However, if I have a tenner left to buy shopping for a week for four kids then I feel no guilt in raiding the 3 for a fiver freezer and neither should anyone else. When you have scrapped the bottom of the freezer to put together a hearty meal of a fish finger, a chicken nugget and a couple of roast potatoes then I will listen to people who say you can easily feed a family without "resorting" to cheap food. Until then its chicken nuggets and chips for tea Razz
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plipplop

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 22:34

dididave wrote:
It bugs me a little bit that here is an assumption that because people feed their kids "crap food" they are somehow bad parents who are ignorant and live in shell suits with their socks tucked in their boots. If you think I can afford to buy free range chicken, organic bananas, fairtrade coffee, ethically sourced clothing while meanwhile avoiding Nestle and just about every other multi-national in existence you are wrong. You talk about good food as if it is accessible to all. In the real world it is not. I shop at Iceland, I shop at Supermarkets and no I do not hunt round my local butchers, farms etc but when I have they are simply not cheap enough for a family of six to buy regularly.

Like it or not the reality is that organic, free range and good quality food costs A LOT more money. I try to avoid crap for my kids, I look at the ingredients on packets, I avoid E numbers and artificial colours but can I afford to buy sandwich fillings that cost three times the price and only last a day when the processed stuff is three for a fiver? No I cannot. You speak as if people who shop in Iceland etc are ignorant but trust me the majority of us know were are food is coming.

However, if I have a tenner left to buy shopping for a week for four kids then I feel no guilt in raiding the 3 for a fiver freezer and neither should anyone else. When you have scrapped the bottom of the freezer to put together a hearty meal of a fish finger, a chicken nugget and a couple of roast potatoes then I will listen to people who say you can easily feed a family without "resorting" to cheap food. Until then its chicken nuggets and chips for tea Razz

<Insert: "this is about to get controversial" disclaimer>

Perhaps we should explore how, when and why people have kids then? It's astounding how many parents complain they can't feed a large family on their income - well, don't have one then! My sister loves kids but decided two was enough; she can feed them fairly ethically, give them most of what they want and not have to flap about not paying the gas bill.

I respect every parent's decision to feed their kids what they want, but in 20 years time, when your kids have developed respiratory problems and skin disorders from the chemical cocktails you fed them, you'll be asking for my tax funding to treat them on the NHS. Therefore, whilst my input into what you do with them now is unwelcome, in 20 years my money won't be.

There's a common principle of supply and demand here. Low income families having child upon child upon child creates a demand for low-cost, unethical, unhealthy food, which the supermarkets are only too happy to supply.

As demand for ethical food has increased, the prices have plunged; organic fruit and veg can be virtually the same as non-organic now. If people didn't have this disregard for animal welfare, I'm quite sure that organic meat would go that way too.

And it's not just about the money. Those chicken nuggets, fish fingers and roast potatoes are an easy fix for hungry (but fussy) kids who aren't old enough to know better. But just to really clarify the maths:

Free range whole chicken is 3.69 per kg at Tesco. 5.16 for a 1.4kg bird.
Dirty chicken is 2.36 per kg. 3.30 for a 1.4kg bird.

That's a difference of 1.86. I'd call that a good, healthy investment for anyone, regardless of whether they have kids or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 22:54

plipplop wrote:
dididave wrote:
It bugs me a little bit that here is an assumption that because people feed their kids "crap food" they are somehow bad parents who are ignorant and live in shell suits with their socks tucked in their boots. If you think I can afford to buy free range chicken, organic bananas, fairtrade coffee, ethically sourced clothing while meanwhile avoiding Nestle and just about every other multi-national in existence you are wrong. You talk about good food as if it is accessible to all. In the real world it is not. I shop at Iceland, I shop at Supermarkets and no I do not hunt round my local butchers, farms etc but when I have they are simply not cheap enough for a family of six to buy regularly.

Like it or not the reality is that organic, free range and good quality food costs A LOT more money. I try to avoid crap for my kids, I look at the ingredients on packets, I avoid E numbers and artificial colours but can I afford to buy sandwich fillings that cost three times the price and only last a day when the processed stuff is three for a fiver? No I cannot. You speak as if people who shop in Iceland etc are ignorant but trust me the majority of us know were are food is coming.

However, if I have a tenner left to buy shopping for a week for four kids then I feel no guilt in raiding the 3 for a fiver freezer and neither should anyone else. When you have scrapped the bottom of the freezer to put together a hearty meal of a fish finger, a chicken nugget and a couple of roast potatoes then I will listen to people who say you can easily feed a family without "resorting" to cheap food. Until then its chicken nuggets and chips for tea Razz

<Insert: "this is about to get controversial" disclaimer>

Perhaps we should explore how, when and why people have kids then? It's astounding how many parents complain they can't feed a large family on their income - well, don't have one then! My sister loves kids but decided two was enough; she can feed them fairly ethically, give them most of what they want and not have to flap about not paying the gas bill.

I respect every parent's decision to feed their kids what they want, but in 20 years time, when your kids have developed respiratory problems and skin disorders from the chemical cocktails you fed them, you'll be asking for my tax funding to treat them on the NHS. Therefore, whilst my input into what you do with them now is unwelcome, in 20 years my money won't be.

There's a common principle of supply and demand here. Low income families having child upon child upon child creates a demand for low-cost, unethical, unhealthy food, which the supermarkets are only too happy to supply.

As demand for ethical food has increased, the prices have plunged; organic fruit and veg can be virtually the same as non-organic now. If people didn't have this disregard for animal welfare, I'm quite sure that organic meat would go that way too.

And it's not just about the money. Those chicken nuggets, fish fingers and roast potatoes are an easy fix for hungry (but fussy) kids who aren't old enough to know better. But just to really clarify the maths:

Free range whole chicken is 3.69 per kg at Tesco. 5.16 for a 1.4kg bird.
Dirty chicken is 2.36 per kg. 3.30 for a 1.4kg bird.

That's a difference of 1.86. I'd call that a good, healthy investment for anyone, regardless of whether they have kids or not.

Well I suppose you should ask my wife that, I married her with kids already in tow! TBH Phil I think we agree that yes we should all be eating free range this that and the other but I think were we differ is on the practical side. When my wife had kids she was in a financially stable relationship that she thought was for life. How would she fit into your theory? I work hard as does my wife to put food on the table, we buy the best food we can but we do have to resort to crap food eventually this is the facts of the situation and we are one of many. I am not complaining about it I am just stating that the people who obviously do have the money to buy everything organically should think a little harder about why the people who don't buy stuff that isn't.

You say 1.86 is a healthy investment I would agree, a healthy investment in a loaf of bread and a pint of milk!

Your point about prices coming down is true, but not enough I am afraid. I agree that we should all talk with our feet but that is easy to say when you have the money for the shoes and change for the shine!
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plipplop

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:03

dididave wrote:


Well I suppose you should ask my wife that, I married her with kids already in tow! TBH Phil I think we agree that yes we should all be eating free range this that and the other but I think were we differ is on the practical side. When my wife had kids she was in a financially stable relationship that she thought was for life. How would she fit into your theory? I work hard as does my wife to put food on the table, we buy the best food we can but we do have to resort to crap food eventually this is the facts of the situation and we are one of many. I am not complaining about it I am just stating that the people who obviously do have the money to buy everything organically should think a little harder about why the people who don't buy stuff that isn't.

You say 1.86 is a healthy investment I would agree, a healthy investment in a loaf of bread and a pint of milk!

Your point about prices coming down is true, but not enough I am afraid. I agree that we should all talk with our feet but that is easy to say when you have the money for the shoes and change for the shine!

Well, the solution is to eat the kids, I guess. Laughing

Dave - the idea that you try is fair enough - at least you're making an effort when you can.

I do think about why the people who don't buy stuff that isn't organic do so, and I still reckon there's a lot of laziness there, as opposed to tight purse strings.

It's a bit like a shoplifter. Who begrudges the man who steals a loaf of bread when he has no money? Nobody. 1% of cases.

Who begrudges the man who steals a bottle of whiskey because he spent his giro on fags? Everybody. 99% of cases.

(I DO like the quote about the shoes - that will be used in a workshop I'm writing as we speak. What a wonderful phrase!)


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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:08

plipplop wrote:
dididave wrote:


Well I suppose you should ask my wife that, I married her with kids already in tow! TBH Phil I think we agree that yes we should all be eating free range this that and the other but I think were we differ is on the practical side. When my wife had kids she was in a financially stable relationship that she thought was for life. How would she fit into your theory? I work hard as does my wife to put food on the table, we buy the best food we can but we do have to resort to crap food eventually this is the facts of the situation and we are one of many. I am not complaining about it I am just stating that the people who obviously do have the money to buy everything organically should think a little harder about why the people who don't buy stuff that isn't.

You say 1.86 is a healthy investment I would agree, a healthy investment in a loaf of bread and a pint of milk!

Your point about prices coming down is true, but not enough I am afraid. I agree that we should all talk with our feet but that is easy to say when you have the money for the shoes and change for the shine!

Well, the solution is to eat the kids, I guess. Laughing

Dave - the idea that you try is fair enough - at least you're making an effort when you can.

I do think about why the people who don't buy stuff that isn't organic do so, and I still reckon there's a lot of laziness there, as opposed to tight purse strings.

It's a bit like a shoplifter. Who begrudges the man who steals a loaf of bread when he has no money? Nobody.

Who begrudges the man who steals a bottle of whiskey because he spent his giro on fags? Hmmm.

(I DO like the quote about the shoes - that will be used in a workshop I'm writing as we speak. What a wonderful phrase!)

Oh I agree there are some lazy people, I just hate pigeon-holing I suppose and the quote is all my own BW so give me a heads up at your workshop!

I think that is the point, you do your best for your kids, those that do and still have to resort to crap food should have respect those who feed their kids *Bad Word* so they can go out on a Friday, I think we would both agree need their genitilia putting in a mincer Jamie Oliver stylee!
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:11

dididave wrote:


I think that is the point, you do your best for your kids, those that do and still have to resort to crap food should have respect those who feed their kids *Bad Word* so they can go out on a Friday, I think we would both agree need their genitilia putting in a mincer Jamie Oliver stylee!

Or force-feed them Tesco Value chicken - it's equally cruel..... Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sat 16 Feb 2008, 23:13

plipplop wrote:
dididave wrote:


I think that is the point, you do your best for your kids, those that do and still have to resort to crap food should have respect those who feed their kids *Bad Word* so they can go out on a Friday, I think we would both agree need their genitilia putting in a mincer Jamie Oliver stylee!

Or force-feed them Tesco Value chicken - it's equally cruel..... Laughing

Nah, Bernard Matthews Dinosaur meat, that is torture.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 00:20

dididave wrote:
If you think I can afford to buy free range chicken, organic bananas, fairtrade coffee, ethically sourced clothing while meanwhile avoiding Nestle and just about every other multi-national in existence you are wrong.

Oh god, don't even get me started on Nestle and the whole how formula is 'crap in a can' business Mad
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 00:36

Just because I don't have kids doesn't mean my opinion is less valid or that I don't know anything about it.

My niece lives in one of the most deprived areas of the the country. Her good for nothing ex-partner pays towards their little boy now and again. They have only recently split up so nothing is in place yet formally. She works part-time and does not claim any benefits other than child benefit.

There are few shops where she lives, the majority of business are cheap off licences or chip shops. However, she makes sure her son eats lots of fresh fruit and veg - I've never met such a good eater - and she doesn't let him have fish fingers or chicken nuggets. She buys her most of her groceries from the local butchers and greengrocers. It's tough for her but she does what she has to.

Furthermore, my job brings me into contact with some very needy families. Many of the parents are poorly educated and either low paid or unemployed - many with little prospect of gaining employment. However, in some of the neediest parts of the city there are food co-operatives that are encouraging thse families to change their eating habits and persuading them to make a positive change to their futures. The argument that "there are no butchers" just doesn't wash with me. If you want to feed your kids healthy food you can.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 00:58

But what if there rally are no butchers, or not very good ones, what do you do then?

And for the record my child eats very well, all fresh fruit and veg and most of his diet is organic. However, giving him a bit of chicken that cost 2.99 is not going to hurt or make him have an unhealthy diet.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 01:05

spoilt_little_brat wrote:
But what if there rally are no butchers, or not very good ones, what do you do then?

And for the record my child eats very well, all fresh fruit and veg and most of his diet is organic. However, giving him a bit of chicken that cost 2.99 is not going to hurt or make him have an unhealthy diet.

So you do give your child organic food! And very occasional low quality chicken would not hurt, but aren't we talking about people who serve up nasty chemical filled food to their kids consistently?
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 01:09

If it were a case of they were having chicken on a daily basis, my main thought would be that they are not having a balanced diet, not where they get it from and how much it cost them.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 01:24

spoilt_little_brat wrote:
If it were a case of they were having chicken on a daily basis, my main thought would be that they are not having a balanced diet, not where they get it from and how much it cost them.

Its not just chicken , though.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 02:20

[quote="dididave"][quote="plipplop"]
dididave wrote:





Oh I agree there are some lazy people, I just hate pigeon-holing I suppose and the quote is all my own BW so give me a heads up at your workshop!

!

Absolutely bang on Dave. Pigeon holing was exactly what was going on here until you rather skilfully ( I thought ) countered it.
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fizzywizzy

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Number of posts : 728
Age : 46
Registration date : 2006-10-26

PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 10:34

fizzywizzy wrote:
It's about priorities really. I find that many (but not all) people who complain that good food is too expensive think nothing of smoking or drinking alcohol or paying a monthly sub to Sky or having an unnecassry mobile contract.

Your body needs to last you your whole life so why not look after it?

I certainly wasn't pigeon holing anyone. In fact, what I find so odd is that among people one MIGHT expect to care more there is a surprising number of people who aren't worried and among those one MIGHT think would have little concern there is a strong wish to effect change. It's probably down to the proliferation in deprived inner cities of local authority and health authority schemes to get people involved in where their food comes from.
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