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 Jamie's Fowl Dinners

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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 12:21

fizzywizzy wrote:
fizzywizzy wrote:
It's about priorities really. I find that many (but not all) people who complain that good food is too expensive think nothing of smoking or drinking alcohol or paying a monthly sub to Sky or having an unnecassry mobile contract.

Your body needs to last you your whole life so why not look after it?

I certainly wasn't pigeon holing anyone. In fact, what I find so odd is that among people one MIGHT expect to care more there is a surprising number of people who aren't worried and among those one MIGHT think would have little concern there is a strong wish to effect change. It's probably down to the proliferation in deprived inner cities of local authority and health authority schemes to get people involved in where their food comes from.

I don't think "not worried" is the right word but prioritising might be? Look at the people on here, they say they want to feed their kids good food, they say they do their best to do that but they also say they cannot afford to by all organic free-range food and why would you not believe that? Yes, you have a family member who manages it and I say fair play and respect for them but I know in my instance butchers are massively more expensive locally and greengrocers even more so.

The parents who try and buy organic but also fail are effecting change probably a lot moreso than somebody who can afford to buy organic anyway and does not really have to sacrifice for it!
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 13:06

fizzywizzy wrote:
fizzywizzy wrote:
It's about priorities really. I find that many (but not all) people who complain that good food is too expensive think nothing of smoking or drinking alcohol or paying a monthly sub to Sky or having an unnecassry mobile contract.

Your body needs to last you your whole life so why not look after it?

I certainly wasn't pigeon holing anyone. In fact, what I find so odd is that among people one MIGHT expect to care more there is a surprising number of people who aren't worried and among those one MIGHT think would have little concern there is a strong wish to effect change. It's probably down to the proliferation in deprived inner cities of local authority and health authority schemes to get people involved in where their food comes from.

Buy you also said "Not really - in the same way that someone who continually pours loads of booze down their neck with no thought for their health has little self respect."

Its generalization.

Look Im sure there are people, like you point out, that are lazy and have no self respect. But you can't just say because someone eats cheaper chicken that they have no self respect end of, becuase thats clearly not true.
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plipplop

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 13:51

spoilt_little_brat wrote:
If it is a choice of a 2 chicken or a 5 one, I will always go for the cheaper and the thought of where is has come from never enters my head.

WormThatTurned wrote:
I buy cheap chicken and eggs - it all taste the same to me and to be honest I dont give a stuff about how they are kept whilst they are alive. They're going to be killed for human consumption anyway. The only thing I think about going around a supermarket is my budget.

You pigeon-holed yourselves as lazy shoppers, with scant regard for animal welfare. Your responses quite clearly stated that price is always your main driver. I think it's perfectly legitimate, therefore, to criticise you for a lack of self-respect; this clearly demonstrates that you'd eat anything as long as it's cheap.
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 14:35

There's a lot being said about organic here. It doesn't necessarily have to be organic to be any better. However, How much do you know about the cheaper meat and poultry in the stores? Where has it come from? What kind of safeguards are there in the country it has come from to make sure its safe to eat? How do you know what chemicals have been pumped into it?

Most of the cheap meat and poultry sold in supermarkets cannot be identified with regard to origin. Ask the staff on the meat section in any supermarket and they don't know where the meat comes from.

Incidentally I paid just 3.00 yesterday for over a Pound of organic lamb reared locally in Northumberland. Delicious, tender, reasonably priced and I know exactly where its from and when it was killed.
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WendyBull

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 17:34

I have four kids becasue when I married, my husband already had two and I wanted kids of my own as well so we decided to have another two.

We both work and have a lot of bills to pay - so we budget and some things get priority above expensive chicken.......and no not luxuries!
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 18:35

plipplop wrote:


You pigeon-holed yourselves as lazy shoppers, with scant regard for animal welfare. Your responses quite clearly stated that price is always your main driver. I think it's perfectly legitimate, therefore, to criticise you for a lack of self-respect; this clearly demonstrates that you'd eat anything as long as it's cheap.

Phil, in that very same post I said "The only thing I think about going around a supermarket is my budget"

How does that conclude that I'd eat anything if its cheap ?

Anyone can highlight a select number of words and construe it to their own ends. Your the lazy one, having a point of view and not even attempting to see a differing standpoint.
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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 18:41

fizzywizzy wrote:
There's a lot being said about organic here. It doesn't necessarily have to be organic to be any better. However, How much do you know about the cheaper meat and poultry in the stores? Where has it come from? What kind of safeguards are there in the country it has come from to make sure its safe to eat? How do you know what chemicals have been pumped into it?

Most of the cheap meat and poultry sold in supermarkets cannot be identified with regard to origin. Ask the staff on the meat section in any supermarket and they don't know where the meat comes from.

Incidentally I paid just 3.00 yesterday for over a Pound of organic lamb reared locally in Northumberland. Delicious, tender, reasonably priced and I know exactly where its from and when it was killed.

A pound of lamb, so whats that...a chop and a bit??? 3.00 for a kilo in Tesco so for the same price I could feed over twice the number of people! Six people at 3.00 each is eighteen quid just for the meat.
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WendyBull

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 18:52

That's very interesting Dave - never even thought to equate how much lamb that was in weight.

My kids are not that fussy and will eat veg, pasta and other cheap stuff that is not meat - however they like meat with their meals.....

.....as well as Princess shaped chicken, potato waffles and smiley faces and yummy fish fingers or Iceland steak pies!
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 20:22

dididave wrote:
fizzywizzy wrote:
There's a lot being said about organic here. It doesn't necessarily have to be organic to be any better. However, How much do you know about the cheaper meat and poultry in the stores? Where has it come from? What kind of safeguards are there in the country it has come from to make sure its safe to eat? How do you know what chemicals have been pumped into it?

Most of the cheap meat and poultry sold in supermarkets cannot be identified with regard to origin. Ask the staff on the meat section in any supermarket and they don't know where the meat comes from.

Incidentally I paid just 3.00 yesterday for over a Pound of organic lamb reared locally in Northumberland. Delicious, tender, reasonably priced and I know exactly where its from and when it was killed.

A pound of lamb, so whats that...a chop and a bit??? 3.00 for a kilo in Tesco so for the same price I could feed over twice the number of people! Six people at 3.00 each is eighteen quid just for the meat.

Well it fed two comfortably...one Pound of lamb for one person is a bit excessive. And we don't buy it that often. And, as I said, we know where it came from
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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 20:40

fizzywizzy wrote:
dididave wrote:
fizzywizzy wrote:
There's a lot being said about organic here. It doesn't necessarily have to be organic to be any better. However, How much do you know about the cheaper meat and poultry in the stores? Where has it come from? What kind of safeguards are there in the country it has come from to make sure its safe to eat? How do you know what chemicals have been pumped into it?

Most of the cheap meat and poultry sold in supermarkets cannot be identified with regard to origin. Ask the staff on the meat section in any supermarket and they don't know where the meat comes from.

Incidentally I paid just 3.00 yesterday for over a Pound of organic lamb reared locally in Northumberland. Delicious, tender, reasonably priced and I know exactly where its from and when it was killed.

A pound of lamb, so whats that...a chop and a bit??? 3.00 for a kilo in Tesco so for the same price I could feed over twice the number of people! Six people at 3.00 each is eighteen quid just for the meat.

Well it fed two comfortably...one Pound of lamb for one person is a bit excessive. And we don't buy it that often. And, as I said, we know where it came from

Great, then my 3.00 a kilo cut would feed four!
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 21:20

But comes from where?
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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 22:06

A flippant man would say Tesco, some farm somewhere I would imagine, are there intensively reared Lambs? Dunno. Are they fed all sorts of *Bad Word*? Probably. Saying that if I eat in pizza hut what do I think the Pepperoni is made of? Testicles probably, still eat it though!
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 22:11

I just bought a sirloin steak from ASDA for 1.83. It has a picture of some guy on the front giving his name and calling him a yorkshire farmer. Do I believe my steak came from his farm?

Nope! No where on the packaging does it actually say that it did.

Why does where it came from matter all of a sudden?

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koshkha

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 23:07

It only matters if you care.

If you don't then don't worry about it.

Personally I've not eaten meat in 17 and a half years and get a smug warm feeling of 'I told you so' at each successive food scandal. But I also eat processed food but figure I don't smoke and I don't drink to any significant level so it's all a matter of balance.

Personally I get more annoyed by people who go out and leave their heating on all day or leave their taps dripping and throw their recyclables in the non-recyclable bins. They hurt the world for all of us where as people eating cheap chickens and hurting themselves with burgers can do that if they want to. It'd be nice if they were all eating happy chickens but I'd prefer they don't eat meat at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 23:26

koshkha wrote:

Personally I get more annoyed by people who go out and leave their heating on all day or leave their taps dripping and throw their recyclables in the non-recyclable bins. They hurt the world for all of us where as people eating cheap chickens and hurting themselves with burgers can do that if they want to.

That's a common sense approach - so thank you.
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plipplop

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Sun 17 Feb 2008, 23:53

WormThatTurned wrote:
Phil, in that very same post I said "The only thing I think about going around a supermarket is my budget"

How does that conclude that I'd eat anything if its cheap ?

Anyone can highlight a select number of words and construe it to their own ends. Your the lazy one, having a point of view and not even attempting to see a differing standpoint.

Don't understand the laziness on my part. It's not that I can't be bothered to see your point of view. I'm criticising it. There's a difference.

I'm criticising it, because I think it's morally wrong to let animals suffer horrendously just because your kids like Bernard Matthews Dinosaur shapes and you can't be bothered to get them to eat something that wasn't born of suffering.

I'm criticising it because I think you're making a naive investment in your children's future health and well being by feeding them stuff that contains an unnatural balance of hormones and chemicals, the impact of which nobody really understands.

I'm criticising it because there's no indication that you actually make any effort to try healthier alternatives. Dave stated that he does what he can; you explicitly stated that animal welfare simply doesn't interest you.

I'm criticising it because the "I can't afford it" claim is boring, untrue and an indictment of a generation raised to believe that it is their right to have endless volumes of children for which they need take no financial responsibility.

I'm criticising it because the "there ain't no butchers near me" argument is as likely as the queen not having clean knickers in the morning. No, there isn't a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker in one site, with a nice big car park, trolleys for the kids to play in and parent and child parking spaces to minimise the calories you burnt on your way in. But that doesn't mean that decent, affordably-priced, ethical food can't be found in your area.

Clearly, you won't like being criticised for your ethics / personal beliefs and that's completely understandable. But please don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal for stating that who cares about how the animal lived when it's going to die anyway.

Why would I, for example, care about your kids? They'll live 'til they're 60, maybe 70 or 80 if they're lucky, then die. Who cares? Well, actually, I do. I'd like to see all the short lives on this planet as healthy and happy as possible; that doesn't just apply to your kids, though.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 00:10

Hurrah! Couldn't agree more. Bored with this one now...off to recline after a super dinner of Maltese style rabbit casserole. Not an e-number, suspect piece of meat or processed foodstuff in sight! Three people fed for a total of 3! (and a glass of red wine)
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 00:59

fizzywizzy wrote:
Hurrah! Couldn't agree more. Bored with this one now...off to recline after a super dinner of Maltese style rabbit casserole. Not an e-number, suspect piece of meat or processed foodstuff in sight! Three people fed for a total of 3! (and a glass of red wine)

You know, this kinda reminds me of an episode of South Park where people who drove around in hybrid cars created 'smug' which ended up being more dangerous than the smog it replaced.

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 02:43

Just found this one. I gave up poultry and red meat over two years ago. Partly it was because i was not keen on the taste but partly i was on a budget and felt that instead of buying free range organic chicken as i did not want to eat intensively farmed chicken. i now buy my free range eggs from a work colleague's whose father owns a farm so i know exactly where they come from. They taste great Ind are only 70 pence a dozen so are much cheaper than the supermarkets free range ones and i know the money is going straight to the farmer. However do feel guilty about eating biscuits, cakes etc as i can not guarantee thy are free range.

I try with fair trade and organic food but it is expensive.

It's difficult to be totally ethical but every little thing helps

Sarah


Last edited by on Mon 18 Feb 2008, 03:23; edited 2 times in total
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 02:55

plipplop wrote:
WormThatTurned wrote:
Phil, in that very same post I said "The only thing I think about going around a supermarket is my budget"

How does that conclude that I'd eat anything if its cheap ?

Anyone can highlight a select number of words and construe it to their own ends. Your the lazy one, having a point of view and not even attempting to see a differing standpoint.

Don't understand the laziness on my part. It's not that I can't be bothered to see your point of view. I'm criticising it. There's a difference.

I'm criticising it, because I think it's morally wrong to let animals suffer horrendously just because your kids like Bernard Matthews Dinosaur shapes and you can't be bothered to get them to eat something that wasn't born of suffering.

I'm criticising it because I think you're making a naive investment in your children's future health and well being by feeding them stuff that contains an unnatural balance of hormones and chemicals, the impact of which nobody really understands.

I'm criticising it because there's no indication that you actually make any effort to try healthier alternatives. Dave stated that he does what he can; you explicitly stated that animal welfare simply doesn't interest you.

I'm criticising it because the "I can't afford it" claim is boring, untrue and an indictment of a generation raised to believe that it is their right to have endless volumes of children for which they need take no financial responsibility.

I'm criticising it because the "there ain't no butchers near me" argument is as likely as the queen not having clean knickers in the morning. No, there isn't a butcher, a baker and a candlestick maker in one site, with a nice big car park, trolleys for the kids to play in and parent and child parking spaces to minimise the calories you burnt on your way in. But that doesn't mean that decent, affordably-priced, ethical food can't be found in your area.

Clearly, you won't like being criticised for your ethics / personal beliefs and that's completely understandable. But please don't be surprised when you get a rebuttal for stating that who cares about how the animal lived when it's going to die anyway.

Why would I, for example, care about your kids? They'll live 'til they're 60, maybe 70 or 80 if they're lucky, then die. Who cares? Well, actually, I do. I'd like to see all the short lives on this planet as healthy and happy as possible; that doesn't just apply to your kids, though.

Absolutely ridden with assumptions and generalisations (lazy).

What I dont get is....if you care so much about chicken welfare, why do you eat chicken ? Hypocrisy !!

I also do what I can (like Dave) but first and foremost budget is my priority because my family is my priority.

What I conclude from all of this is how ethics is more important to people who dont live on a tight budget.

Also, give me some evidence that cheaper chicken affects my health and I might alter my buying patterns.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 02:57

duskmaiden wrote:

I try with fair trade and organic food but it is expensive.

Sarah

Thankyou.

A first time poster on this subject points out the bleeeding obvious
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 04:26

at the end of the day, what people feed their kids, and indeed themselves will not change as a result of this post.

I am another who can shop very ethically and very cheaply compared to modern supermarket buying, and indeed much more cheaply than most objectors who feel they cannot feed their families sufficiently unless it is cheap pumped up chicken.....and while I understand the arguments on all sides, (and so will not accept that I do not understand such arguments) fact is I do not agree with them. I think it is cheaper to shop ethically, and perhaps grow ethically, and that does not include chicken which has been reared inhumanely (or indeed pork or beef). And I would never eat a frozen dinner, unless my life depended on it (which is unlikely)
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 09:49

WormThatTurned wrote:
duskmaiden wrote:

I try with fair trade and organic food but it is expensive.

Sarah

Thankyou.

A first time poster on this subject points out the bleeeding obvious

I never said it wasn't sometimes more expensive.

My gripe is with people who say they are bothered but then complain the food is too expensive when they aren't willing to be a bit inventive or to compromise at all.

And following on from that, people who say they are bothered and want to feed their kids better stuff but won't give up other luxuries to afford this.
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 11:20

helencbradshaw wrote:
at the end of the day, what people feed their kids, and indeed themselves will not change as a result of this post.

I am another who can shop very ethically and very cheaply compared to modern supermarket buying, and indeed much more cheaply than most objectors who feel they cannot feed their families sufficiently unless it is cheap pumped up chicken.....and while I understand the arguments on all sides, (and so will not accept that I do not understand such arguments) fact is I do not agree with them. I think it is cheaper to shop ethically, and perhaps grow ethically, and that does not include chicken which has been reared inhumanely (or indeed pork or beef). And I would never eat a frozen dinner, unless my life depended on it (which is unlikely)

Do you have more time than me to prepare fresh food though Helen? In no way wanting to get into a you have more time on your hands than me thing because that would just be an excuse on my part. However, I have a maximum of half an hour some days to prepare a meal for the kids tea in-between their varying activities. I sometimes have to weigh up whether the physical activities my kids do outweigh the detrimental effects of a "Princess Dreams" shaped chicken. Of course, I try to make stuff the night before etc etc but it is not always so easy. I suppose these judgement calls are what makes us good or parents.

I would be interested to know how you shop ethically and more cheaply than I would in a Supermarket? If it can be done I will try to do it!
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PostSubject: Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners   Mon 18 Feb 2008, 11:32

I often find that my local Tesco has organic meat and free range chicken in the reduced section so I snap it up and freeze it when I see it.

Then I try to make up double quantities of meals and freeze them till I need them. It comes out of the freezer in the morning when I leave for work to be cooked when I get home.
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