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 Union campaigns on tip abuse

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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 00:16

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7353613.stm

I really hope this campaign is successful. It has a good chance because Unite are the largest union in the country.

Its high time restaurants who abuse tips paid by its customers to make up its staff's pay is stopped once and for all.
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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 12:36

LOL I could not believe that this was the case when I heard it. Stingy buggers!
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 13:31

Maybe this should go in the unpopular opinion thread, but I don't agree with tipping anyway as an automatic thing.

I will only tip if I think it is warranted. And I will NEVER tip on card payments. I fully disagree with service charges being automatically added to bills.

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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 14:29

drewboy wrote:
Maybe this should go in the unpopular opinion thread, but I don't agree with tipping anyway as an automatic thing.

I will only tip if I think it is warranted. And I will NEVER tip on card payments. I fully disagree with service charges being automatically added to bills.

Oh I agree on that too! It is very American to tip automatically and call me hard faced but if there is a service charge I ask it to be removed (the staff do not get it a lot of the time anyway). If someone gives me good service I will tip them well, if they do not they will not get anything!

It makes me laugh that some coffee shops etc that are self service anyway charge a service charge! What are they getting tipped for? I don't tip the chekout operator in Asda for ringing through my bill so why should I tip them?
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 14:39

I had a service charge put onto a table at an all you can eat buffet. I was very quick to take that off!

What people also seem to forget, is that waiting staff actually get a cut in their income tax through tipping. Which is something else I grudge.

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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 15:08

drewboy wrote:
I had a service charge put onto a table at an all you can eat buffet. I was very quick to take that off!

What people also seem to forget, is that waiting staff actually get a cut in their income tax through tipping. Which is something else I grudge.

Very true. Pay the minimum wage (as they should) and leave it to the customer to decide.
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koshkha

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 23:39

drewboy wrote:
I had a service charge put onto a table at an all you can eat buffet. I was very quick to take that off!

Oh, so nobody cleaned the tables, nobody collected your plates, took your drinks orders or led you to the table and took your coats?
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 20 Apr 2008, 23:57

Oh - I'm sorry, should I only not tip when my table is dirty, and my coat hangs on the back of my chair? (which actually, it did)

I refuse to feel guilty for not tipping in a place like that, and to be honest, find it absurd that people actually do.

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dididave

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 10:03

koshkha wrote:
drewboy wrote:
I had a service charge put onto a table at an all you can eat buffet. I was very quick to take that off!

Oh, so nobody cleaned the tables, nobody collected your plates, took your drinks orders or led you to the table and took your coats?

Yes but these people get a wage! There seems to be a weird mentality were people expect to get more than what they are paid in some sectors. You get your wage, that should be it. If you perform well it is up to the employer to reward you, not the customer! They are already paying for the service and in effect keeping you in employment.
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koshkha

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 10:14

My point is that even where you use your own legs to stroll over to the heaving buffet table and to the carry the food back over to your table, it's not true to say that there is no service involved.

An all you can eat buffet can be really great or really poor and a lot of that depends on whether the staff are running back and forward keeping everything topped up, keeping the tables clean, clearing your dishes, bringing you plenty of drinks and generally keeping things running smoothly. We were in one last night that completely stands or falls on the basis of them having more staff than I've ever seen in any other similarly sized restaurant.

Personally I don't think there's that much LESS effort in a good AYCEB than in a restaurant where someone walks from the kitchen to the table with your plate. For me, a good place like this easily justifies 10% but I wouldn't go to my normal 15% because it's self-service. However, I equally wouldn't walk out without paying a tip if I've had good service - which I did.

The fault is not with the serving staff who, on the whole, don't EXPECT tips in the UK but certainly do appreciate them. The fault is in the system that pays them rubbish wages and expects them to live off their tips.

If you look to the US where tipping is horribly out of control, you get great (if rather over-effusive and somewhat irritating) service but they've gone too far with waiters chasing you down the street to argue about the % of their tip.

But by contrast, go to any place in Holland where they pay the staff well and nobody tips much, and you'll get utterly indifferent and often rather patronising 'service'. Most waiting staff in the UK are still pretty good about tips - if you do, that's great, if you don't they won't chase you to your car demanding to know why.
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spoilt_little_brat

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 11:00

In the case of the buffet, if the little service you do get was good then I would tip, but I would not except that it is just added to my bill.

When I used to live in Bath I noticed most places would just add on a 10% service charge if there were over 5/6 of you. I think that makes the staff slack as they don't have to 'work' for their tip.
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fizzywizzy

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 11:47

spoilt_little_brat wrote:
In the case of the buffet, if the little service you do get was good then I would tip, but I would not except that it is just added to my bill.

When I used to live in Bath I noticed most places would just add on a 10% service charge if there were over 5/6 of you. I think that makes the staff slack as they don't have to 'work' for their tip.

But bigger groups take more time to serve, I think it seems fair to charge something

I have started being mean. I used nearly always to tip, almost without thinking but these days it depends on whether i think the service was something special
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WormThatTurned

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 18:27

I dont agree with automatic service charges at all. They should pay their staff a decent wage and not use customers generosity to top up their wages. Common sense to me to only tip if you feel the service offered warranted it.
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drewboy
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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Mon 21 Apr 2008, 23:46

I am far more likely to leave a decent, if not more than normal tip for a large table if there ISN'T one added.

If it is, then that will be all I will put down.

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koshkha

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Wed 23 Apr 2008, 10:57

fizzywizzy wrote:
spoilt_little_brat wrote:
In the case of the buffet, if the little service you do get was good then I would tip, but I would not except that it is just added to my bill.

When I used to live in Bath I noticed most places would just add on a 10% service charge if there were over 5/6 of you. I think that makes the staff slack as they don't have to 'work' for their tip.

But bigger groups take more time to serve, I think it seems fair to charge something

I have started being mean. I used nearly always to tip, almost without thinking but these days it depends on whether i think the service was something special

I don't like the added charge but I think they may be right to do it - large groups are AWFUL for not tipping. It always *Bad word* me off to go out in a large group, pay my share plus a good tip and then find that the total money collected barely covers the bill and my tip isn't going to the staff, it's going to subsidise some meanie who won't pay their share. On that basis, the only way they get a tip from a group is to put it on the bill.
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atticusuk

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Wed 23 Apr 2008, 11:31

Why should we tip people in the frst place just for doing their job.

I could spend hours sorting out a persons mortgage, a quite complex process in some cases and not once did I get a financia tip yet some bloke manages to drive me from a to b or someone deigns to bring me the food I ordered on a plate in a reasonable time and with a smile and I'm supposed to pay an additional amount for the product. Makes no econmic sense.

Last night I sat down with 25 sets of parents over an evening to tell them how much I taught their darling off spring and did not get one tip from them. Next time the hat with a few coins and notes as seed money is going on the desk.
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koshkha

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Fri 25 Apr 2008, 22:01

Yeah, but teachers get paid a fortune don't then (he he he)
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atticusuk

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PostSubject: Re: Union campaigns on tip abuse   Sun 27 Apr 2008, 12:38

koshkha wrote:
Yeah, but teachers get paid a fortune don't then (he he he)

Oh definately they do, my side line of getting the kids hooked on sniffing marker pens has proved very profitable due to my contact in the supplies office at school those year six kids can't get enough of them, but a tip would still be nice
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