PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT.

OKAY I know we cannot all protect the environment in any great way but we can do our share. I use a vehicle which has limited emissions and doesn't consume loads of fuel, I have a very well serviced boiler that consumes as little as possible, but I just got a phone call that annoyed me. It was a french consessionaire trying to sell me a Freelander just because I am English. It really is silly over here at the moment with 9 out of 10 English people driving 4 x 4, and perhaps only one of them actually using it for overland work in connection with their upkeep of their land. I hate these fuel guzzlers. I really do. What do other members feel ?

It's easy Rachel. Just say NO.

Companies are entitled to offer their products to people. Potential customers are entitled to tell them to stuff off.

That's business.

Individuals make their own decisions - whether it's gas guzzlers or unhealthy food. I'm opposed to direct government or other interference (other than whamming up the taxes and getting the off roaders off the road).

Anyone see the thing on aviation on BBC2? Stelios from Easyjet had a point. Taxing flights was just a tax on the poor who otherwise could not afford to fly. I kind of agree with taxing gas guzzlers but do think there should be exceptions. MPV's for large familes should not be taxed in my view. In our family situation if we did not have an MPV we would have to have two cars doubling emissions.

But that is the point I am making. 4 X 4's here are a fashion accessory and are not needed, whilst I can understand people who need gas guzzlers for large family use of course.

I agree on that Rachel. If you want to drive one then you should pay for the fact.

I think they have to be taxed heavily - or how do we ever effect change?

same on recycling really, it's scary how many people just do not bother - not their problem see.

I'm thinking of changing my car for a smaller one, just got a new job in the city so I will never use it anyway.

Although my current one is a diesel, aren't they meant to be cleaner now?

Friends of the Earth wrote:

Petrol engines are less efficient than diesel engines. They emit more carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons.

Diesel engines produce more nitrogen oxides, sulphur dioxide, black smoke and particles - associated with poor urban air quality.

Both petrol and diesel can be reformulated to cut emissions, e.g. City Diesel, City Petrol, Clean Diesel. Fitting a catalytic converter can cut emissions from both.

The best option is an electric-petrol hybrid, like the Toyota Prius. The Prius is the most efficient car on the UK market. It will also cost you less in road tax.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't

helencbradshaw wrote:

I think they have to be taxed heavily - or how do we ever effect change?

same on recycling really, it's scary how many people just do not bother - not their problem see.

My local collection agency seem to have a strange policy about recycling. We have a designated recycling bin that gets emptied every other week. If you ever over fill the bin or leave stuff on the pavement next to it, they refuse to take it! How can there be 'too much' stuff you want to recycle!? In a house like mine, there are 5 of us so we fill the bin in no time flat, so the excess has to go in the standard bin (which is larger) and gets carted off to the landfill.


As for 4x4 driving, I don't see the point myself. For the minority who do use them for their true purpose then fair enough they have a need, but the 4x4's that just drive on normal streets are contributing unnecessary pollution and damage to roads. Aren't they also more dangerous to pedestrians because of the bars on the front.
I think there needs to be some kind of law that only allows people to own such a vehicle if they can prove they have a need for 4x4 driving.

Off road = parking on the pavement outside the school.

Or did I miss the point of off-roaders?

[quote="dididave"]Anyone see the thing on aviation on BBC2? Stelios from Easyjet had a point. Taxing flights was just a tax on the poor who otherwise could not afford to fly. [quote]

In that case then we should make fuel guzzling cars cheap enough for everyone to buy - we could have several cars per family then - pollutuin rights for all!

Isn't it just the way of the world that not everyone can afford everything they want?

helencbradshaw wrote:

I think they have to be taxed heavily - or how do we ever effect change?

same on recycling really, it's scary how many people just do not bother - not their problem see.

They are taxed heavily - due to their relatively low fuel economy, they use a lot more petrol and hence pay a lot more in tax and fuel duty. Can't see a way of imposing any other sort of tax that wouldn't be spectacularly unfair. E.g. consider the relative emissions of a 4x4 owner that drives 5000 miles a year versus a Ford Focus owner who drives 20000 miles a year. Is it then fair to make the 4x4 owner pay a huge tax, when he's actually having much less of an impact on the environment than the Focus owner?

Also, a normal car poorly maintained can be just as bad or even worse than a supposedly gas-guzzling (hate that term!) 4x4. I was talking to a neighbour about cars a while back, and he reckoned he only got 17mpg out of his clapped-out Ford Escort! He was a bit put out when I told him I averaged just under 41mpg in my Lotus...

Ok stepping way out of line now, but the only people I ever see driving (or trying to) these 4x4's is women picking up their kids at end of the day. They cannot control them, therefore causing more accidents and take up far too much room regarding parking.

I agree that if you have a car like that you should be taxed more.

I work for a leading gas company and I know this is an issue that is really a sore subject. There is loads of work going on to try and help protect the environment, it is just that the public do not often get to hear about it.

fizzywizzy wrote:

Isn't it just the way of the world that not everyone can afford everything they want?

That is like saying, do not give to charity as some people will always lose out somewhere. Do not bother with medical research as there will always be another disease. Flying should not be a luxury IMO just as driving should not. Luxurious flying, just as luxurious driving is what should be taxed.

Flying used to be a luxury...

therein lies the problem, it isnt any more!

dididave wrote:

That is like saying, do not give to charity as some people will always lose out somewhere. Do not bother with medical research as there will always be another disease. Flying should not be a luxury IMO just as driving should not. Luxurious flying, just as luxurious driving is what should be taxed.

But things should cost... what they cost, so to speak. Otherwise why not just make everything in the world £1. I've been in pound world - and it's not a pretty sight.

If you're paying for something that damages the environment then it should cost enough extra to help put that damage to rights. In this sense I don't see how flying can be all that cheap. It shouldn't be a luxury by some arbitrary decision, but I can understand it being expensive simply because it costs an awful lot in practical and environmental terms. Forgive my child-like wonder for a moment, but you're flying! Anywhere you want within 24 hours. With pretty good safety statistics too. Take £100 to the DIY shop and see how close you get. And for every 10 metres you fly, kill some plants in your garden.

I might be getting a little silly now, but the basic point stands.

The Sunday Times January 28, 2007

Last warning: 10 years to save world

Scientists say rising greenhouses gases will make climate change unstoppable in a decade
THE world has just 10 years to reverse surging greenhouse gas emissions or risk runaway climate change that could make many parts of the planet uninhabitable.

The stark warning comes from scientists who are working on the final draft of a new report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The report, due to be published this week, will draw together the work of thousands of scientists from around the world who have been studying changes in the world’s climate and predicting how they might accelerate.

They conclude that unless mankind rapidly stabilises greenhouse gas emissions and starts reducing them, it will have little chance of keeping global warming within manageable limits.

The results could include the destruction of the Amazon rainforest and the Great Barrier Reef, the forced migration of hundreds of millions of people from equatorial regions, and the loss of vast tracts of land under rising seas as the ice caps melt.

In Europe the summers could become unbearably hot, especially in southern countries such as Greece, Spain and Italy, while Britain and northern Europe would face summer droughts and wet, stormy winters.

“The next 10 years are crucial,” said Richard Betts, leader of a research team at the Met Office’s Hadley Centre for climate prediction. “In that decade we have to achieve serious reductions in carbon emissions. After that time the task becomes very much harder.”
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Looks like time is running out for the environment, folks!

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

Ok stepping way out of line now, but the only people I ever see driving (or trying to) these 4x4's is women picking up their kids at end of the day. They cannot control them, therefore causing more accidents and take up far too much room regarding parking.

Not only can't they drive or park the car, they also think they have the right to use a mobile phone either for calls or texting. I had a woman in a 4x4 in front of me who was actually holding up her mobile to see the buttons properly to text someone. I decided to fall back and leave her a lot of room.

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

I agree that if you have a car like that you should be taxed more.

I totally agree with Richmond (South London) council upping the residential parking for 4x4's or rather all gas-guzzlers quite considerably. People are crying not fair but then again, I doubt you need an off-roader in a suburban environment.

Oh yeah. Let's do a bit of woman-driver bashing.

I see plenty of these trawling the motorways (which is more my stamping ground than the school run) and there are far more men and guess what, they use mobile phones too.

marandina wrote:

The Sunday Times January 28, 2007

Last warning: 10 years to save world

Scientists say rising greenhouses gases will make climate change unstoppable in a decade
THE world has just 10 years to reverse surging greenhouse gas emissions or risk runaway climate change that could make many parts of the planet uninhabitable.

The stark warning comes from scientists who are working on the final draft of a new report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The report, due to be published this week, will draw together the work of thousands of scientists from around the world who have been studying changes in the world’s climate and predicting how they might accelerate.

They conclude that unless mankind rapidly stabilises greenhouse gas emissions and starts reducing them, it will have little chance of keeping global warming within manageable limits.

The results could include the destruction of the Amazon rainforest and the Great Barrier Reef, the forced migration of hundreds of millions of people from equatorial regions, and the loss of vast tracts of land under rising seas as the ice caps melt.

In Europe the summers could become unbearably hot, especially in southern countries such as Greece, Spain and Italy, while Britain and northern Europe would face summer droughts and wet, stormy winters.

“The next 10 years are crucial,” said Richard Betts, leader of a research team at the Met Office’s Hadley Centre for climate prediction. “In that decade we have to achieve serious reductions in carbon emissions. After that time the task becomes very much harder.”
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like time is running out for the environment, folks!

I think we're doomed...

Well, the Mayan calendar ends in 2013, so I guess we're right on schedule.

Dammit. I won't even be old enough to cash out my pension by 2013 ...!

The environment is ever changing and it always will. Theres far more important things to worry about......like are Spurs gonna beat Arsenal tomorrow ?

I very much doubt it


Now , what about the planet ...

While big business are hand in hand with governments, corruption will continue to rule above the planets best interests. Unfortunately.

And I fear your right about Arsenal doing the Spurs !!