censorship.

I take it we can discuss anything we want providing it is in the best interests of the group (the group being the MOD) and the mod only?

Censorship and deleting threads that you do not agree with is the worst form of defence I know and cowardly.

It seems to me that rather than admit that the last MOD standing made some unbelievable errors, if you just deltet everyones thoughts instead it may go away.

The Victorian not talk about it method or sweeping things under the carpet.

Shocking and cowardly.

I haven't deleted it as I anticipated some reaction. It's actually been kept, although I was rather hoping that people can move on. You can discuss anything as a subject as long as that subject falls within the rules of the forum. Can't we just sort out personal problems between adults instead of dragging things further and further. The moderation of posts in future will be according to the rules of the forum which should by now be crystal clear. Give me a chance Angus to actually read everything that was said. The moderation of the forum will be according to the rules and the new mod has this in hand. I shall be back later to discuss. It has not been left under the carpet but perhaps put on hold whilst people calm down, and the thread will be put back in place. I don't hide things. I do not see one side and hide the other, but I have a busy schedule and want a little breathing space.

No, that is censorship Rachel, which/what/however you look at it, you have stopped people from discussing a rule of the the forum which was more vague than a politcians answer.

You said that members could talk about whatever they wanted within the rules of the forum and that is exactly what we were doing, yet because the subject matter is not what you want, you have censored people from discussing it.

that is bad both for your credibility and also for people now who feel that they can not discuss any issues that are not favourable for you.

Debbie made a really bad decision and you are standing by her for all the wrong reasons and you know it.

Also, can you point to where I gave you permission to access my personal info please as it seems Debbie has gone into my profile, which contains data personal to me and changed some of it. I would like to see the rule I agreed to that allows you to do this.

I hope I haven't said anything to offend anyone.

I had not censored it. I have not even read it yet. A thread was causing members distress. I moved it to the staffroom to read it to see what it said and still have not read it. This thread was opened, and I believed that the discussion could continue here until I have a chance to read the other thread, but I only have so much time in which to do it.

I am at the moment constructing standard warnings to be sent to people that consistently break the rules, ones that are polite and explain in a pleasant manner what the person has done, and what cannot be accepted from members. Please have patience. Things are happening to ensure that members are informed, but it takes time. Sometimes, it's a balancing act, but I am sure that being reasonable human beings, we can sort it, so please discuss by all means ways forward, but please keep personalities out of the threads. Refer to Admin, refer to Mods, though please if you have personal criticism of any member individually, message them and deal with it between you. In the background, I am working to try and make the site work for everyone and it is hard work, and balance my life offline.

Quote :

I hope I haven't said anything to offend anyone

Of course you haven't !!

That's good. I posted on a thread and it disappeared and I was worried I might have said something wrong.

I am not sure what happened as I was not here. No threads will be deleted from now because once they are deleted they are irretrieveable. What will happen is that if a conversation takes a turn which cannot be controlled, it will be moved to another forum for staff to deal with and then put back in place. Unfortunately, I cannot be here 24 hours a day but this is our way of minimising inconvenience to other members. I stress NO threads will be deleted but will be placed on hold until all admin have a chance to discuss and decide what is going on.

It is a debate that will never go away.

How to mod without being seen to be heavy handed, or take things to extreme.

I personally think when rules become necessary it takes a lot of spontaneity and fun out of "chatting" on boards. That said, rules are necessary and I have seen a lot of out of control threads.

We are all here because inevitably we are bound by one common "hobby". I think there is a difference between normal discussion (about that hobby for example) and blatantly touting for reads, and that should be obvious.

I don't think I would necessarily want to be discussed in forums I was not a part of, but it needs to be taken in context of what was said.

It's impossible not to name names at the end of the day! At least sometimes.

I've never liked rules much though.



Rules are not necessarily sacred; principles are. (Roosevelt)

I feel that a measure of self modding should be adopted too.

We are all meant to be adults on here although the last day or two has made me wonder.

If you really have to name, insult or put down another person to get your point across then the problem lies with limited social skills.

How come nobody just plays nice anymore ? Why do things come down to bickering and throwing toys out of the pram ?

We are all supposed to be adults here, I am sure things can be settled peacefully. Or do I have to come down wherever the trouble is and kick someone's bottom with my huge size four feet ? **Oh smile then, it was meant to be funny !!**.......

Just behave and play nice, and have proper adult discussions.........

If I want to say "Kate was born in America but lives in the UK now" or "Helen works for a hotel chain, so she probably knows about this" or "Angus is a big fat cheesy head" (as a joke), I freakin' well will, and if any retarded, moronic, power-crazy, only-understand-the-letter-of-the-law-not-the-spirit-of-it M-O-D deletes it then I shall make a bigger fuss than even Agnes (by that I mean Angus and I'm naming him) and Matty (by that I mean Kate and I'm naming her) did.

Jebus. Are you all fick or what?

Since none of those comments are naming in the manner of which the rules are set, the posting will stay. It's an adults forum. The names that will be deleted are for example

cheesehead wrote a review that is crap today, lets go look at it.
I got revenge ratings today - lets go see who did it.
guestbooks are humming and have you seen DUMBO'S SWEARWORDS.
ALICIA is an over rating VH whore
etc etc

Let's grow up shall we.

Good grief what does it take to get people to be adult.

Quote :

Since none of those comments are naming in the manner of which the rules are set, the posting will stay. It's an adults forum. The names that will be deleted are for example

THANK YOU, Rachel! At last we are clear!

I know you were trying to soothe all feelings, but all you've done on this thread was make people feel as though you were upholding an extremely foolish modding decision that caused an understandably bad reaction because it was so ridiculous and stupid. We all make modding mistakes - I've made enough myself over the years - but it does help people if the admin just says that's what happened instead of trying to save feelings. Anyone with any electrical connections in the brain whatsover can see the modding was foolish, so it's best just to say that!

I was not here Jill. If you expect me to say that staff acted badly I am not prepared to. If they acted badly, I have to take responsibility for that and say that perhaps my instructions to them were not good enough. It's a hard job. I make mistakes. I wanted to let people know about hyperlinks, and did so in a cack handed manner. We all make mistakes. None of us are perfect Jill, but I was thinking about this earlier. I have to be trust my staff (if you can call them that), and these are tough choices. All the information that people have on forums is of paramount importance. People have asked me for members email addresses for example. I have to trust that the staff I have do not pass out information. I trust the staff I have 100 per cent. What would you rather have ? total trust in your staff or a staff that let anything go ? which is the lesser of the two evils ?

As for moderation, I am now putting in the staffroom guidance on a daily basis of how to deal with complaints, how to deal with moderation, how to please every person under the sun and become a forum where ALL are welcome who want to make a contribution. It was tempting to press the delete button last week, and you must know how that feels. I am not prepared to let the forum go down the route of "hehehe - look at so and so and how pathetic they are". I will not go there. I won't be party to it. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. Take for example a posting that was asked by a member to be removed this morning. It was dealt with, but I have now explained that dealing with it in another way would have been wiser and would have suited everyone concerned. It was only a little thing, but in future, will be dealt with differently. My instruction here needs more input and will have, mindful of the fact that mistakes get made.

From now, if anyone has a problem with a moderation of a post, then take it up with the person that moderated because I am running a site, living a life, and want the site to succeed not for any ego thing, not because of anything other than wanting somewhere where people can get information, talk about things, be reasonably friendly, stating both sides of arguments and being civil. I can't do more than that, but I can instruct so that arguments of this nature don't become an everyday thing. They in turn can put a thread in the staffroom if they need guidance, and I shall be keeping a close eye on what is happening.

At the end of the day, if I fail in my instruction of site members then I am to blame, and it is hoped we can move on in a reasonable fashion.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

Since none of those comments are naming in the manner of which the rules are set, the posting will stay. It's an adults forum. The names that will be deleted are for example

cheesehead wrote a review that is crap today, lets go look at it.
I got revenge ratings today - lets go see who did it.
guestbooks are humming and have you seen DUMBO'S SWEARWORDS.
ALICIA is an over rating VH whore
etc etc

Let's grow up shall we.

Good grief what does it take to get people to be adult.

People to be treated as such? Perhaps if members were treated with an amount of respect instead of being moderated with considerable scorn then the problems you have at the moment would not have arisen? Furthermore if the examples Jill quoted above were example then so are many of the posts that have been moderated.

I am working on guidelines in the staffroom that will do just that, i.e. respect members as being adult. Please allow me the time it takes to implement it. These guidesline include using common sense, and not editing posts that clearly have no harm intended.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

Since none of those comments are naming in the manner of which the rules are set, the posting will stay. It's an adults forum.

I got modded the other day, as I happened to mention Which had contacted me as they were doing an article on Car Dealers (Alfa Romeo), and they had read my experience on Dooyoo.

The "on Dooyoo" part has gone, but what, seriously does that achieve Rachel? People can still find it IF THEY WANT TO , by searching under ALFA!!!

The fact I write reviews is well known. The fact I write on Doyoo and Ciao is well known. It's not a tout for reads. It was me making conversation. I doubt anyone is going to go back and read a two year old review just because I said Which want to put it in a magazine.

If I said Angus's Alfa Car dealership is a big scam don't shop there, all the staff are crooks, please MOD me, but modding the above, taken in Context of where I said it, seems fruitless.

I'm making the point to the system, not the person who did it btw.

You might need mod guidelines, but they should be just that, Guidelines.

Quote :

The "on Dooyoo" part has gone, but what, seriously does that achieve Rachel? People can still find it IF THEY WANT TO , by searching under ALFA!!!

I moderated it Helen, as one of the main things is not to draw attention to reviews. I thought it was a common sense moderation. I am leaving your posting here alone Helen, because it helps to reinstate how the rulings work and why.

But it doesn't stop anyone reading it, unless you remove Car Dealership, Alfa, and my name otherwise someone can still find it anyway! That's my point!

And if you delete CAR Dealership, Alfa, and my name, there will be no post left..

Don't get me wrong, if someone comes up and blatantly said something that points to their brand new review, and is touting for reads then Mod it, but there is a difference between that and what I wrote the other day, which was simply telling people Which had approached me and I was wondering if I should do it! (we have agreed to now btw)

I'm not moaning, I'm not that sensitive to you removing two words, but I just do not follow the logic at all here!

Okay we all make these errors and the forum has been picked up on rather a lot for none moderation of things that matter and over moderation of things that don't.

I am trying with every passing day to make clear to staff what is acceptable and what is not.

For example, when I posted about hyperlinks, I only noticed in my own review and thoughtlessly posted what I saw and was immediately jumped upon for drawing attention to my review. I wasn't but members were making a point. Fair enough. It's against ciao rules to ask for reads, although dooyoo don't seem too bothered, but if people keep plugging reviews, we have to have a deciding line. It's a toughy. If you can think of some way of getting around it that suits everyone, let me know cos I need all the help I can get at the moment.

It would help greatly as well if members respected other members and tried to keep all the review site areas clear of off topic rubbish that is offputting to newer members that have to wade right through it to find the substance of the thread.

The only thing i can reiterate is context.

I doubt your review was touting for reads either, but if it said "my latest review I posted today has weird hyperlinks" then perhaps that might be better worded as "have you noticed all the hyperlinks on Ciao today?"

Actually, for me, even if someone did post a thread that said "please follow this link and read my latest review" I would just think, "Idiot" and ignore it! THere is a big difference and if you make a one size fits all rule, then it stifles normal conversation.

To a certain extent Helen I agree, but we do have members that post without thinking, pointing to their reviews, so we do have to draw a line somewhere. Trouble is yes there are grey areas, but by leaving your posting and editing someone elses, it is effectively picking on one as "sensible" and one as "stupid" which is even worse to my mind.

A member messaged me this morning and said he did not mind his message being posted here on his thought about moderating.

"why cant people just move on. If there were inconsistancies in modding so what, we are all human. One quote does spring to mind. "to err is human, to forgive...is not in the nature of forum users" Also "he who is without sin cast the first stone" Moderating is a judgement call and not all decisions are consistant or correct in the cold light of day but its not the end of the world. Its not as if this site hands out life sentances or medical funding...its just a bit of fun."

helencbradshaw wrote:

The only thing i can reiterate is context.

...if you make a one size fits all rule, then it stifles normal conversation.

Precisely. There is a big difference between rules and guidelines. Rules require more moderation and less leeway for common sense. Guidelines are just that and are open to consideration and common sense interpretation.

We posted at the same time.