DOES CIAO'S COT SYSTEM ENCOURAGE CLICKING CARTELS ?

Referring to another thread, do ciao's system of trust encourage clicking cartels ?

Personally I have too many people on alert for that to apply in my case unless you count 500 people as a huge clicking cartel. We all read for different reasons but the point is that if a person joined, made a few mates, and just rated their reviews, would that constitute a cartel ? Seriously, given the amount of money you are talking about, not sure that even that would amount to a cartel because I honestly believe the monetary thing doesn't really come into it. I mean, if I read a writer, its because I enjoy their work, not because I think they merit a penny. Not sure what others think but lets talk about it. From the conversation so far it would seem that like me, members believe that the recompense involved in ratings other members from their cot is so minimal that it would actually not be viable. However, it should be borne in mind that clicking cartels do exist, though not particularly on a cot basis.

If a COT only comprises half a dozen people and they are the only people you/they rate then, yes, it would be a 'cartel'.

I looked at my COT the other day and half of them are not members anymore and I cannot add any more because the Norton programme I use does not let me.

If you only rate those in your COT and there is a high degree of mutual trust then I can understand how someone looking at rating patterns would arrive at that conclsion, certainly that is how it came about at Dooyoo with the recent investigations on that site.

I read and rate those in my COT but I also have people on alerts and check out the new reviews as well so I don't think my COT would be consider a cartel.

I've never got the Ciao way of the CoT. My CoT is (or was) for people I communicated with regularly but none of these people ever made it to my alerts. Why? Cos i've never used alerts for any members. My past reading and rating habits followed no pattern at all. I'd log on, click around, go to the new review list and do whatever the hell I felt like doing. To me member alerts are a hindrance and a chore. I use alerts for certain products i'm interested in which makes much more common sense than to have 100 alerts per day for every Tom, Dick 'n Harry.

If you ask me Ciao and members alike would benefit a lot more by at least cutting down on those billions of alerts and obligations everyone seems to have. Wouldn't Ciao be more fun and work better as a business if everyone just Ciao'ed. Plus can someone explain this comment to me please "got 1000 alerts to catch up on this week"..????? Me no understando

As for clicking cartels, so long as the rates are all honest I can't see it matters. It's not like there's money to be made on Ciao anyway.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

Personally I have too many people on alert for that to apply in my case unless you count 500 people as a huge clicking cartel.

At the risk of sounding like a bitch don't you think having 500 alerts is extremely obsessive? Do you honestly enjoy reading all 500 people? That's something else I just cannot comprehend. Don't you feel like you've got a ball and chain attached to you? Surely you'd feel a lot more free and able to enjoy the so-called Ciao experience if you just took it all as it came on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis. Y'never know you might get used to sponteniety. 500 alerts is madness

sirg0508 wrote:

Those with 1000+ alerts moaning that they have so many to read are just plain insane

Plain insane, very obsessive and also crying out for attention. Maybe i've missed the point or maybe some people get other things out of it which have not been explained to me yet but in my mind having 1000 or whatever alerts screams out "please all of you, or at least most of you, come and read me back. Come and be my friend. I'm very nice. I rate everyone. It would benefit you being my friend. Return the rate, cos you know i'll rate your next one too. Oh go on. Please. Go on compliment me too. All of you. Or at least half of you. I NEED PRAISE AND ATTENTION" (am not picking on anyone here. Any similarities to real/cyber life are totally coincidental and I mean no harm to anyone even if I do mean most/everything I say)

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At the risk of sounding like a bitch don't you think having 500 alerts is extremely obsessive? Do you honestly enjoy reading all 500 people? That's something else I just cannot comprehend. Don't you feel like you've got a ball and chain attached to you? Surely you'd feel a lot more free and able to enjoy the so-called Ciao experience if you just took it all as it came on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis. Y'never know you might get used to sponteniety. 500 alerts is madness

Not really. I read those in my cot and there are so many that trust me and so many I trust. I have changed the way I rate now and only read my alerts at weekends. There are others I know that have 1000 alerts. I like mine just the way they are and there are never too many because not all are going to be active at any one given time.

I used to have a lot of alerts, but it did become 'ball and chain' - I'd feel guilty if I couldn't get to all of them.

Now, the only alerts I have are for members who only write once in a blue moon. I have maybe half a dozen on alerts now.

I stopped getting alerts as it was too many emails! I read when I have time and sometimes go through my COT or people who trust me and other times just click on new rerviews or diamonds etc. There are not enough hours in the day to read all your COT if they are really active people, although several of mine seem to have disappeared, but some have returned after a a coupple of years! so I'm glad I hadn't removed them.
Cartels? I suppose you could say reading and rating amounts to this, but it is a large cartel!

I don't see how it could be a cartel! even if you were only to read the same ten people and that ten people only ever read you, who or what are you harming? you are not stopping people looking elsewhere for an opinion and you are not making vast sums of money whilst keeping everyone else out! In fact you are probably making even less! It is true you may not be entering into the spirt of the site but you are not forcing anything...

6chris6 wrote:

I don't see how it could be a cartel! even if you were only to read the same ten people and that ten people only ever read you, who or what are you harming? you are not stopping people looking elsewhere for an opinion and you are not making vast sums of money whilst keeping everyone else out! In fact you are probably making even less! It is true you may not be entering into the spirt of the site but you are not forcing anything...

Very good point indeed. It's the members who have created the rules, more so than the sites have!

Yes, I think the COT introduces a circle of reading. I have never really used alerts, but I have about 2-3 members who are in my alerts from my early days, who write infrequently, and therefore once in a blue moon I get an email.

Does this circle of reading really matter? Well no, not really. with the exception of a few products, e.g. ipods and games consoles, high street electronic retailers and similar, most of the products or services which are featured on Ciao have few reviews. (Look up the exact make and model of your TV if you don't believe me!) Therefore, the ordering of these reviews will not matter that much to the potential consumer. (Stuff like food, LUSH, and toiletries in general also generate a lot of reviews, but I have yet to meet a person in the real world even at my age who really researches a lush bath bomb or a cadbury bar before they buy it, so I am yet to be convinced by people who state otherwise. In any event, if the general public are researching the relative power of the LUSHBATHBOMBWITHFLOWERSANDSPARKLYBITS I doubt they read the reviews anyway, they will more than likely think "OK, it's four stars average and over 200 reviews, it must be good...") I've took this approach with international hotels for years, and they tend to be a lot more expensive than bath bombs...

I do read widely, always have done, as I read from the new in list and never from alerts. (Over 10000 members rated...out of 35000 rates in my five years) However, it isn't a huge disaster if people read less widely, as consumers are not interested in members rating of helpfulness, more writer opinion of service.

If anything, the ordering of Ciao in the way it presents its reviews to consumers is at fault. Dooyoo doesn't do this I note, and neither do the big hotel sites such as tripadvisor.com (which is way superior to either site for hotel research). They order by recency. There is a lot of validity to taking that approach. Ciao's approach effectively seems to put the most popular "member" reviews at the top of the pile, which is nonsense really. By this I mean if I write a decent review, but I am active, I am more likely to get E ratings and get to the top of the pile. The overall "best" (subjective!) review might be there lower down the pile because it was written four years ago, when there were less active members.

The problem with these perceived cartels though, is that they are seen to give their buddies an E, which distorts the balance, in the current system

Disclaimer: If you do research the newcadburychocolatebarwithaeroholesforthatlighttastesensation in before you part with 49p, then all offence is intentional.

sugarnspice wrote:

If you ask me Ciao and members alike would benefit a lot more by at least cutting down on those billions of alerts and obligations everyone seems to have. Wouldn't Ciao be more fun and work better as a business if everyone just Ciao'ed. Plus can someone explain this comment to me please "got 1000 alerts to catch up on this week"..????? Me no understando

Me neither!!!!! I get an alert once every Blue moon, from the 2-3 people on alerts from my early days, it usually shocks me, and then I delete it! Without guilt.

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The problem with these perceived cartels though, is that they are seen to give their buddies an E, which distorts the balance, in the current system

What made me question E as a rate was seeing in a guestbook "Thanks for the E, have one back !" and that is so silly.