Eurovision - is it time to give up?

helencbradshaw wrote:

Surely, out of all the good music we produce every year, we could find a better entry...! How hard can it be..!

I wouldnt think it would matter who we entered thesedays, nil points all the way !!

WormThatTurned wrote:

helencbradshaw wrote:

Surely, out of all the good music we produce every year, we could find a better entry...! How hard can it be..!

I wouldnt think it would matter who we entered thesedays, nil points all the way !!

wel I dont know, as we have been crap every year AND upset all the natives, it is hardly surprising we get nil points...!

I mean, this year, COME ON! It was awful. Mind you what happened to Ireland..!

helencbradshaw wrote:

WormThatTurned wrote:

helencbradshaw wrote:

Surely, out of all the good music we produce every year, we could find a better entry...! How hard can it be..!

I wouldnt think it would matter who we entered thesedays, nil points all the way !!

wel I dont know, as we have been crap every year AND upset all the natives, it is hardly surprising we get nil points...!

I mean, this year, COME ON! It was awful. Mind you what happened to Ireland..!

Regardless of national bias in the voting the UK song was absolute *Bad Word*! And by having a title 'Flying the flag' probably didn't endear it to the more 'inclusive' theme that Eurovision seems to have these days.

I think Italy had the right idea when they dropped out of it all a decade or so ago.

WormThatTurned wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

We should not worry that we have no chance of winning but instead just join and have fun.

I dont think anyones worried about it. Theres no fun in being last every year and the voting system being politically rigged so whats the point the U.K being there ??? None.

In that case we should stop fielding entrants for the football World Cup, most Olympic sports, Wimbledon, etc, etc.

I must say that goes against one of the chief concepts of "Britishness".

Perhaps if we weren't such a crap country - being racist and fighting wars that weren't ours to fight - people in other countries wouldn't hate us quite so much.

fizzywizzy wrote:

WormThatTurned wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

We should not worry that we have no chance of winning but instead just join and have fun.

I dont think anyones worried about it. Theres no fun in being last every year and the voting system being politically rigged so whats the point the U.K being there ??? None.

In that case we should stop fielding entrants for the football World Cup, most Olympic sports, Wimbledon, etc, etc.

I must say that goes against one of the chief concepts of "Britishness".

Perhaps if we weren't such a crap country - being racist and fighting wars that weren't ours to fight - people in other countries wouldn't hate us quite so much.

I think this has been overplayed I don't think the UK is hated. The voting is biased but probably more on cultural lines. If you look at the kind of music that is popular in some european countries it isn't the same as what is liked here. Also what has Ireland done to deserve coming last? Have they invaded any countries lately? It could just be that the UK song and the Irish song were crap or rather crappier than the rest!

And France were third last and going by their anti war stance youd think they would have done better. In fact all of the Western nations struggled for votes.

Its a dead duck, leave it to the new countries. Italy were right.

fizzywizzy wrote:

Perhaps if we weren't such a crap country - being racist and fighting wars that weren't ours to fight - people in other countries wouldn't hate us quite so much.

Britain isn't crap. Were not all racist. Not all people from other countries hate us. Your just generalizing.

I'm with you - I don't think Britain is crap at all. Personally I'm bloody proud of my country (though not of its government).

I am proud of my country, but I am ashamed of it for some reasons.

funnily enough we were having this same conversation at a conference with a South African delegate a few weeks ago.

she said (and I agree) that the racism in Britain can be worse than the problems in countries with "known" problems..like SA. here, we trot out the "I'm not racist but...." argument sometimes

And my South African boss (who I have only known three weeks) said about the same thing today.

so, I think there are sectors of the British population that are inherently racist...and no, I am not proud of that at all.

Thankfully there is a lot of good here too. And having lived abroad I know the grass isn't greener just because the sun shines more.

koshkha wrote:

I'm with you - I don't think Britain is crap at all. Personally I'm bloody proud of my country (though not of its government).

Well said and I agree.

It really pee's me off when people slag off Britain; we have it bloody good over here when you look at some other places.

Maybe if all the people who hate and bad mouth Britain jumped ship it would be a lot nicer place.

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

Maybe if all the people who hate and bad mouth Britain jumped ship it would be a lot nicer place.

My experience is different

however, I don't think that Britain, or the world is in any way perfect.

I also know that the people I know who have "jumped ship" as it were, are almost without exception a lot more tolerant of people, workplaces, politics etc, than the people I know who have not "jumped ship". I don't make that claim lightly, I have worked in Australia, Africa, Europe and America for short or extended periods.

I DO think Britain has it bloody good (*Bad Word* I am the one who gave up Sydney Harbour for Irvine Harbour), which is why I don't know why I hear so much negativity from doomsayers (who are usually moaning about how great it is "abroad"!!! (when they have never been)

If I had a pound for every "POM" I ever met, who went (or waxed lyrical about moving) to Australia in search of a better life, only to find tax is actually higher than here, and you need 2million aussie to even get a sniff on the housing market in Sydney - I would never need to work ever again!!!

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

koshkha wrote:

I'm with you - I don't think Britain is crap at all. Personally I'm bloody proud of my country (though not of its government).

Well said and I agree.

It really pee's me off when people slag off Britain; we have it bloody good over here when you look at some other places.

Maybe if all the people who hate and bad mouth Britain jumped ship it would be a lot nicer place.

I'm counting the days......

Ok - so maybe hate was a bit strong but it is the case that Brits aren't much liked and I do think that Brits get a bit peeved about the fact that in continental Europe people are pretty much getting on with each other and doing very well nicely and don't care much about the UK and what we do.

I do thin its pathetic, though, for people to tak about not bothering to enter Eurovision just because we don't do very well. The attitude that comes across is this: "We are better than them". I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

fizzywizzy wrote:

I'm counting the days......

Ok - so maybe hate was a bit strong but it is the case that Brits aren't much liked and I do think that Brits get a bit peeved about the fact that in continental Europe people are pretty much getting on with each other and doing very well nicely and don't care much about the UK and what we do.

I do thin its pathetic, though, for people to tak about not bothering to enter Eurovision just because we don't do very well. The attitude that comes across is this: "We are better than them". I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

I think this is part of the problem we seem to have a siege mentality in the UK even to the extent that we believe that everyone hates us!

This is simply not true I've lived in Italy and I've spent time in France and Spain and travelled all over Europe and I never felt this hatred toward Britain that we all seem assume. I suspect that the French are disliked more in Europe than the Brits. Certainly in Italy the French are considered arrogant whereas the Brits are if anything well meaning if slightly stuffy. The French I believe dislike the Spanish and while we might still feel a mistrust of the Germans the Germans are somewhat bemused by this and don't hold any real dislike of the UK.

The UK stance on the war did make a difference to our image temporarily but on the whole Europe is quite admiring of the UK seeing it as a successful country with a strong economy and a good standard of living. English football 'fans' aren't appreciated, food is still not taken seriously and the weather is crap but overall the UK is quite liked or at least not thought about very much.

Could it be our overstated sense of importance that makes us believe that we are the object of others European thoughts all the time. I think there are slightly xenophobic undertones to this idea.

Mauri wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

I'm counting the days......

Ok - so maybe hate was a bit strong but it is the case that Brits aren't much liked and I do think that Brits get a bit peeved about the fact that in continental Europe people are pretty much getting on with each other and doing very well nicely and don't care much about the UK and what we do.

I do thin its pathetic, though, for people to tak about not bothering to enter Eurovision just because we don't do very well. The attitude that comes across is this: "We are better than them". I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

I think this is part of the problem we seem to have a siege mentality in the UK even to the extent that we believe that everyone hates us!

This is simply not true I've lived in Italy and I've spent time in France and Spain and travelled all over Europe and I never felt this hatred toward Britain that we all seem assume. I suspect that the French are disliked more in Europe than the Brits. Certainly in Italy the French are considered arrogant whereas the Brits are if anything well meaning if slightly stuffy. The French I believe dislike the Spanish and while we might still feel a mistrust of the Germans the Germans are somewhat bemused by this and don't hold any real dislike of the UK.

The UK stance on the war did make a difference to our image temporarily but on the whole Europe is quite admiring of the UK seeing it as a successful country with a strong economy and a good standard of living. English football 'fans' aren't appreciated, food is still not taken seriously and the weather is crap but overall the UK is quite liked or at least not thought about very much.

Could it be our overstated sense of importance that makes us believe that we are the object of others European thoughts all the time. I think there are slightly xenophobic undertones to this idea.

No - you misunderstand me...in my experience people of other nations of Europe aren't thinking about us all the time...they don't think of us much at all.

I read a letter in the Metro this morning in which the writer asked why - since everyone disliked the UK so much they (apparently people of Eastern Europe) all wanted to some here.

People who are against immigration from eastern Europe seem to think that all of E Europe wants to come here and its simply not true. The number of people who come here is quite small; most people are just living their lives quite happily with little thought to us.

I do take back my comments about the UK being "hated" - I was infuriated by the idea that we should not take part in a two bit contest just because we don't do very well. What I can say is true , though, is that many people in Europe do find our attitude quite funny - they get quite a laugh at our pompous and stuffy attitudes and our inflated idea of our own importance

fizzywizzy wrote:

I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

I think we should pull out because of the unfair voting. Absolutely nothing to do with racism. Racism card being played again - everyone is obsessed with racism.

WormThatTurned wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

I think we should pull out because of the unfair voting. Absolutely nothing to do with racism. Racism card being played again - everyone is obsessed with racism.

What makes it unfair? That those countries vote for whomsoever they want to vote for? That its not the UK that they are voting for? That the UK entry was so good you are astonished that it ddin't do better? Clearly our song was so good the other countries have not been voting fairly! I have not heard anyone suggesting our song deserved to win.

My point about racism is the assumption that something not quite fair must have been going on for the UK not to do well. An assumption that says that other countries don't make very good music. Or - as I have heard people say - "eastern European music is rubbish"

WormThatTurned wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

I really believe that the underlying tone of this argument is quite racist

I think we should pull out because of the unfair voting. Absolutely nothing to do with racism. Racism card being played again - everyone is obsessed with racism.

It's not the 'racism card' being played, actually when I hear someone saying this I always think it's a good way of deflecting the debate from looking at what are racist or xenophobic attitudes...

And what is wrong witht he voting system except that it give shte 'wrong' result for the UK!

Many people for a variety of reasons not all political will vote for their near neighbours it is true but it seems that if a song is popular enough it will get votes from across the board and nullify the localised voting bias.

We keep talking of the eastern European voting cartell in which case why did the Finnish song win last year? Last time I looked they weren't remotely in Eastern Europe... or is there a scandanavian voting bias too and if there was would this be enough to secure a win?

No I think in the end the song that is most popular (note I don't say 'best') will probably win out even taking into accouint voting bias.

And talking about the system being fair why should the UK get a place in the final every year while other countries have to qualify, certainly on recent performance this isn't justified...

Does anybody actually believe that If our entry had the best dance act and voices of all time we'd win? I certainly don't, and believe that the majority of countries will always vote for their neighbours no matter what their opinion on the song. I catch it every year out of habit I suppose, but realise that it's just got far too political and should be scrapped. Lisa x

lisa2062 wrote:

Does anybody actually believe that If our entry had the best dance act and voices of all time we'd win? I certainly don't, and believe that the majority of countries will always vote for their neighbours no matter what their opinion on the song. I catch it every year out of habit I suppose, but realise that it's just got far too political and should be scrapped. Lisa x

Then we'd better scrap elections too because the government always win!

It doens't matter if we don't win. It doesn't even matter if there's political voting. For years we laughed at Norway getting the usual "nul points" - it was a standing joke. Now that it's us, we don't want to play anymore. Let's be British about this and act with a bit of dignity.

If people don't like the song they won't vote for it. The problem with the UK entry was that the song was all about into the competition - it was bigging up the UK - "Flying the flag" was their way of getting picked to represent the UK. Once they were in the competition it didn't mean anything because you can't vote for your own song.

To win Eurovision you need to be completely daft (Ukraine) or else do something people in Europe like. Finland won last year because that whole metal thing is massive in Europe. Let's face it Scooch are just regurgitated Steps - and Steps are no more - that sort of thing is old hat - even in Europe - so why should we think anyone will vote for it when we don't even like it ourselves?

lisa2062 wrote:

Does anybody actually believe that If our entry had the best dance act and voices of all time we'd win? I certainly don't

I dont either.

If the event was a level playing field then I'd be all for it. At the moment it doesnt matter what we enter because we have no chance of winning. This makes the event a farce.

Mauri wrote:

And talking about the system being fair why should the UK get a place in the final every year while other countries have to qualify, certainly on recent performance this isn't justified...

Absolutely agree 100%. No country should automatically be given a place in the last 24 no matter how many times they've won it in the past.

WormThatTurned wrote:

Mauri wrote:

And talking about the system being fair why should the UK get a place in the final every year while other countries have to qualify, certainly on recent performance this isn't justified...

Absolutely agree 100%. No country should automatically be given a place in the last 24 no matter how many times they've won it in the past.

Shows how much I know then, i never realised this..!

however, it is pretty hard to justify that rating is "unfair". After all, if we take something like X Factor....people votes are based on lots of different reasons, (looks, location, some tenuous link to the act...to name but three) and not always for the best song...think Mcdonald brothers last year..diabolical and get through almost to the final..!

And I don't think we can sulk as we don't do very well, not given we have had success over the years. I don't think anyone should ever quit when the chips are down..going out on a high is far better!

If the Uk is going to pull out of the Eurovision Song Contest then I insist that Newcastle pull out of the FA cup - we won it several times in the 1950s and therefore we are better than anyone else taking part. We have nothing to prove and there is no point in us taking part if we are not going to win it.....

fizzywizzy wrote:

If the Uk is going to pull out of the Eurovision Song Contest then I insist that Newcastle pull out of the FA cup - we won it several times in the 1950s and therefore we are better than anyone else taking part. We have nothing to prove and there is no point in us taking part if we are not going to win it.....

I dont think the U.K are better than anyone else just because we have won it in the past. Your just generalizing again that because Im for us pulling out that I must think that.

Read this, glad to know Im not alone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6657207.stm