Postal Action

Postmen I knew in Belfast were earning more than than ten years ago, albeit with guraranteed overtime. Even when I left to go to uni, posties were on more than the people I was working with (£12.5K).

Personally, I always thought the CWU couldn't see the forest for the trees, often raising arguments and discussions which were obviously short-term often for the benefit of a few individuals regardless of the long-term cost.

I'm not siding with the management here, but I do think that in this case, the CWU are causing long-term trouble for both employees and the business.

I think Blairs plan was to break the P.O, like when Thatch smashed the minors, Blair continuinly taking away services and contracts from the posties..
Oh and I meant localised strikes, not national ones,happening in the summer...

2.5% when inflation is 4.5% isnt out of order. My mate is looking for another job and I dont blame him. Management bonuses are at record levels remember.

I remember my mate said that they have a weight limit on postbags so that they cant carry too much at one time. Noone pays much attention to it otherwise the post would never get delivered. However when the union rep brought it to the managements attention he was threatened with disciplinary action if workers worked to rule. That should tell you what type of people run RM - they threaten you when you follow company rules !!

Bunch of shysters. I hope the strike works and they get the payrise they want. I have a feeling they will. The post is really *Bad word* up round here at the moment.

WormThatTurned wrote:

2.5% when inflation is 4.5% isnt out of order.

Taking it more general, do you think people should get the rate of inflation regardless?

Ciao's Favourite Member wrote:

Personally, I always thought the CWU couldn't see the forest for the trees, often raising arguments and discussions which were obviously short-term often for the benefit of a few individuals regardless of the long-term cost.

.

I will second that...they are certainly not acting strategically, and like it or not unions have to modernise too.

to be honest a lot of employees these large scale companies like RM etc are fortunate they even get a pay review...a lot of people in less regulated industries have to fight even for 2.5%...they need to change...and the CWU is holding them back...so other companies can pinch their big contracts...it's inevitable really.

(I didnt know why they were striking until I followed that link either. I knew they WERE...just not why...)


PS that weekly wage quoted must be net...or it wouldnt be minimum wage It ain't a great salary, granted, but then it is a low skill job, and that is market forces unfortunately..lots of industries are the same.

Ziggy! wrote:

I think Blairs plan was to break the P.O, like when Thatch smashed the minors,.....

would that be the miners ...that took me a minute or two to work that out...got visions of Maggie beating up under 16 year olds...

actually the fact we dont rely on coal any more might be the only reason our CO2 emissions have actually gone down and not skyrocketed upwards...(but then thats another debate!!)

drewboy wrote:

WormThatTurned wrote:

2.5% when inflation is 4.5% isnt out of order.

Taking it more general, do you think people should get the rate of inflation regardless?

No, I was pointing out how the pay rise isnt exactly over the top. If they were asking for over the rate of inflation (like the fireman a couple of years ago) I wouldnt be so supportive.

WormThatTurned wrote:

2.5% when inflation is 4.5% isnt out of order. My mate is looking for another job and I dont blame him. Management bonuses are at record levels remember.

I remember my mate said that they have a weight limit on postbags so that they cant carry too much at one time. Noone pays much attention to it otherwise the post would never get delivered. However when the union rep brought it to the managements attention he was threatened with disciplinary action if workers worked to rule. That should tell you what type of people run RM - they threaten you when you follow company rules !!

Bunch of shysters. I hope the strike works and they get the payrise they want. I have a feeling they will. The post is really *Bad word* up round here at the moment.

If there is legislation for H&S reasons....then the union should be supporting the employee...and indeed competent management would too..and while we can all think of situations of incompetent management, as a rule...most people in most jobs want to do the right thing...not many of us get out of bed in the morning to do a BAD job..well not in my experience anyway.

I did my MBA with quite a few RM staff actually...they seemed like a positive focused bunch on the whole (and obviously there is career progression or people wouldnt stay there 20 years and get expensive courses paid for...) ...but I seem to remember the CWU being a challenge then (I know it is from my own earlier career - not in the RM, but same union!)

Not everyone can get 4.5% though, or else inflation rises to more than that, doesn't it? At least, I seem to recall my basic economics seeminly said something like that.

And let's not try and fall into the trap of thinking that posties and the union are all fab and the management are evil. They'll break as many rules (which will benefit the customers) to suit themselves as they will for the customer. They're flaunting the weight limits to suit themselves, not because they're concerned about the customer. However, they'll also break the transport rule and use their own cars to get to their walks, because it suits them, not the customer.

As an ex-member of the CWU, I personally felt the CWU have been holding everyone back certainly during the time I was a RM employee with archaic ideals and policies, ten years ago. The CWU, just like RM needs to get up to date and realise what the 21st century is about.

All workers bend the rules as far as they can (not just postmen) - human nature.

And they arent asking for 4.5%, they are asking for 2.5% with no conditions. They are being offered 2.5 % with conditions, conditions linked to unreachable targets, meaning that the 2.5% will be out of sight.

The CWU are far from perfect but in this case they are doing the right thing. Unions in general are a good thing, not something to despise. They protect the workforce, in exactly situations like this.

Half the time Unions are more corrupt than the management though.

I can't comment on the targets they are being given, I have no frame of reference for them. However, I have NEVER worked in a job where my pay rise has not been conditional.

I beg to differ on the statement that all workers bend rules....I really do. Especially not in the example given. I have been banging my head against a wall on H&S challenges lately...and I don't need a union on my back to make me do the right thing either. I know what's right without a union!

anyway....
What are the conditions?

are they unreasonable in the current climate?

Why have the RM imposed conditions, what are the threats to the service?

I agree with you...Unions have done a lot to protect the workforce...in years gone by in particular.

However digging in one's heels about matters which have had to change in order to remain competitive is what business is all about, unfortunately.

My experience of them...has been that they are extremely unrealistic, unbending, and not acting in the best interests of their members. It might also be a reason why a lot of Customer Service (Contact Centre) jobs went offshore...(I dont like that fact any more than you do, but it has happened). Clearly, post cannot go offshore..but post can be substituted with technological change and competition...as has already been said.

drewboy wrote:

Half the time Unions are more corrupt than the management though.

I can't comment on the targets they are being given, I have no frame of reference for them. However, I have NEVER worked in a job where my pay rise has not been conditional.

Me neither, never worked in a company where pay reviews are automatic either.. (Never done me any harm either...!)

Everyone I work with or ever worked with bends the odd rule. Come on.

WormThatTurned wrote:

Everyone I work with or ever worked with bends the odd rule. Come on.

Making people carry more than they can physically handle is hardly bending the odd rule is it..!!!

sheesh, the baggage handlers won't even attempt anything heavy now, ten years ago they did, no problem...!

Thats the point, they can physically handle it. Its one of these health and safety things that was brought in to protect the workforce from all becoming hunchbacks but the limit was set at a unrealistic level in line with E.U figures. The workers take out more and the bosses turn a blind eye because its in their interest.

Same with any job, silly rules are always bent or ignored.

So what's the limit? How many kilos?

If it is a "silly" rule, and the management are ignoring it, it is on their heads when someone does get injured..and they will lose any claim..more than likely..so seems ridiculous that all RM management are ignoring that one..

I think the CWU agreed those limits with RM, so posties are breaking rules that their own representatives set down.

There's not much that's implemented within Royal Mail without CWU interference/discussion.

WormThatTurned wrote:

Considering they work 48 hour weeks and have to be up at 3 am.

Actually, they don't have to do anything. Nobody makes them work there. For that salary, there are tonnes of different jobs available. If it's such a rubbish place to work they could, er, resign?

I have a friend who recently got fired by Royal Mail - they considered him a trouble maker. Why? Firstly he made the mistake of getting his hand savaged by a dog - you might think the company would have taken some action against the owner of the dog but no, my friend got a formal written warning for being bitten. Then he had 6 months off sick being treated for hepatitis (unrelated to the dog bit - so at least we can't blame them for his illness). Finally his manager made a trumped up charge about being sworn at and almost 9 months later after suspending him and bullying him throughout, they finally fired him. The Union were less than useless and RM have repeatedly broken employment legislation but he's screwed. They'll keep pressing it through the courts.

Another friend was badly attacked by a dog in Norfolk. She insisted that she would not deliver to that house any more - especially as even after the attack the owner was letting the dog out into the enclosed alleyway through which she had to pass to deliver the mail. Eventually her manager went round to see the nice middle class lady who owned the dog and refused to back my friends request for a post box nearer the gate.
Management don't support the staff at all.

The overweight bag thing is a classic issue. The delivery staff have to cover a certain number of streets in their shift. If the shift takes longer, then that's their problem - they have to keep working on their own time. As it is, even if the bags are left in the right place, they have to walk at a heck of a pace to get round in the alloted time, but if they have to keep going back on themselves to pick up more bags, they just can't do it in the time.

Mind you, as a user, I'm still sick to death of having to do a 20 mile round trip to pick up parcels that RM won't deliver even though I'm in the house when they arrive. The staff just seem to assume that nobody's home and I sometimes suspect they don't even bring the parcels - they just carry round the cards saying they couldn't deliver.

I made the mistake of mentioning to the wife of the fired postie that I thought Adam Crozier was 'cute' and he agreed but asked if I'd intended to miss out the N between the U and the T, and did I really mean to put an E on the end.

koshkha wrote:

I have a friend who recently got fired by Royal Mail - they considered him a trouble maker. Why? Firstly he made the mistake of getting his hand savaged by a dog - you might think the company would have taken some action against the owner of the dog but no, my friend got a formal written warning for being bitten. Then he had 6 months off sick being treated for hepatitis (unrelated to the dog bit - so at least we can't blame them for his illness). Finally his manager made a trumped up charge about being sworn at and almost 9 months later after suspending him and bullying him throughout, they finally fired him. The Union were less than useless and RM have repeatedly broken employment legislation but he's screwed. They'll keep pressing it through the courts.

Another friend was badly attacked by a dog in Norfolk. She insisted that she would not deliver to that house any more - especially as even after the attack the owner was letting the dog out into the enclosed alleyway through which she had to pass to deliver the mail. Eventually her manager went round to see the nice middle class lady who owned the dog and refused to back my friends request for a post box nearer the gate.
Management don't support the staff at all.

The overweight bag thing is a classic issue. The delivery staff have to cover a certain number of streets in their shift. If the shift takes longer, then that's their problem - they have to keep working on their own time. As it is, even if the bags are left in the right place, they have to walk at a heck of a pace to get round in the alloted time, but if they have to keep going back on themselves to pick up more bags, they just can't do it in the time.

Mind you, as a user, I'm still sick to death of having to do a 20 mile round trip to pick up parcels that RM won't deliver even though I'm in the house when they arrive. The staff just seem to assume that nobody's home and I sometimes suspect they don't even bring the parcels - they just carry round the cards saying they couldn't deliver.

Pretty much backs up what my mate says about the management at his RM depot, it seems deep rooted to me. I will see him later, I'll ask him more about the strike.

In my time at RM, I didn't really see any intimidation, though I wasn't a postie... and didn't the CWU let us know all about it. In fact the posties were just a bunch of self-centred tossers, only concerned about themselves and not any other RM staff.

When they were aggrieved (e.g. the last national strike about 10 years ago), they made sure everyone was intimidated into coming out in support, but when a few of the other offices had issues, you couldn't see a postman for dust. Bastards.

I do remember that our union managed to to keep a few people in jobs that really shouldn't have been there, lazy drunken idiots.

Its intriuging theres no real coverage of the postal strike in the media.

Well, there is media coverage this time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7027142.stm

I got an email yesterday from our RM account manager urging us to try and work around the strike - which I have pretty much done with a couple of bulk mailings.

However, the Union invovled here need to wake up. My work is currently looking at using TNT instead of RM because they can deliver the same mail for less money, and faster at the same time.