St Georges day holiday

Heard on the news today that Ruth Kelly is planning a 'British Day' to encourage and celebrate being British.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6580997.stm

I'd far rather have a public holiday on St Georges Day. No disrespect to the Scots, Welsh or Irish but the English need to recapture their identities. Most people don't even know when St Georges Day is, in fact they celebrate St Patrciks day more than St Georges Day. The E.U doesn't even recognise England as a country, only the U.K. Theres plenty to be proud of being English and I think theres a real passion in the people for a National day. England seems to be disappearing - people don't know if there English or British or European. I drove past a school today and the school signpost had it's name in 3 other languages below - what's that all about ? It's England and should just be in English. Fair enough in tourism spots. Things have got out of hand.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6580997.stm

WormThatTurned wrote:

Heard on the news today that Ruth Kelly is planning a 'British Day' to encourage and celebrate being British.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6580997.stm

I'd far rather have a public holiday on St Georges Day. No disrespect to the Scots, Welsh or Irish but the English need to recapture their identities. Most people don't even know when St Georges Day is, in fact they celebrate St Patrciks day more than St Georges Day. The E.U doesn't even recognise England as a country, only the U.K. Theres plenty to be proud of being English and I think theres a real passion in the people for a National day. England seems to be disappearing - people don't know if there English or British or European. I drove past a school today and the school signpost had it's name in 3 other languages below - what's that all about ? It's England and should just be in English. Fair enough in tourism spots. Things have got out of hand.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6580997.stm

If it means an extra bank holiday I'm all for it!

I assume the whole point is to try and get a more intergrated society where new citizens to Britain and the ones already here can rally around a common celebration. To this end I don't see it as a bad thing as long as a British Day means just that and takes into account that while Britain is made up by a majority who consider themselves English there are also a lot of other groups, religious, ethnic and racial who are British but not English. An official St Georges day celebration would not do this and might rightly or wrongly emphasise divisions amongst the population.

I don't see that. If I lived abroad and that country celebrated it's national day I'd join in and enjoy myself or at the very least enjoy the extra day off.

It would be a day when England celebrates it's national day - celebrating it's heritage and it's history. I think we really need that. Englishness is really lacking. And after all this is England !!

I would only be for it if, like Mauri said, it wasn't taken as an English thing.

Like it or not, British is FAR too often taken as English and the two terms are used interchangbly on UK television - sometimes in the same sentance.

If that would just change, there would be a HUGE weight taken off the strain between England and the rest of the UK.

Who would then need a Britain day for that?

Mauri wrote:

[ An official St Georges day celebration would not do this and might rightly or wrongly emphasise divisions amongst the population.

Sorry but Like Wormy said, there is St Patrick's day and I don't see how that causes a problem.

This is England, and while I would welcome and encourage people who are not or do not think of themselves as English to join in the St Georges day events, I don't think we should not celebrate just because there are other races and religions that live here.

I personally would like to see some celebration of this kind (e.g. like Australia day or July 4th) and would support either a British day or an English/Scottish/Irish/Welsh day(s)...

There is a St George's day already...we just don't do much or get a day off...(although we had morris dancers in our road..first time I have seen anything like that in 20 years or more!)

morris dancers are a reason not to have St Georges day celebration Helen

There is definately confusion over who we are - British or English (which is only made worse by TV and the press). I have always considered myself English and have a lot of pride being English. It annoys me when I fill out forms and theres only a box for British. I always tick other !!

I can't see a problem making St Georges day a national holiday, in fact I can only see it as a positive thing - fostering good community relations.

Thinking about it, the problem with a 'Britain' day, is that it excludes a certain part of the UK......

People seem to always forget that. Reading through the 'have your say' on the BBC website, its alarming how many people are saying that the problem has sprung from changing for callling it Britain, to the UK - when Britain misses out N.I!!!

Maybe it needs to be UKDAY

WormThatTurned wrote:

morris dancers are a reason not to have St Georges day celebration Helen

There is definately confusion over who we are - British or English (which is only made worse by TV and the press). I have always considered myself English and have a lot of pride being English. It annoys me when I fill out forms and theres only a box for British. I always tick other !!

I can't see a problem making St Georges day a national holiday, in fact I can only see it as a positive thing - fostering good community relations.

Well it was a celebration of English tradition in middle england..!

I am not confused over the British/English thing - we can all be both...! In fact if you have dual nationality you can have a third!

I see St George's day being a positive thing however (just like St Andrew's Day, St David's day etc)

Mind you we get the short straw with regards to where it falls if (unlikely) we ever got an extra day off...we have all these nice short weeks in April and May and then nothing until August

St George's day is the day after my birthday (I bet a huge amount of English people don't even know when that is!) so I would actually quite like that day off!!!

spoilt_little_brat wrote:

Mauri wrote:

[ An official St Georges day celebration would not do this and might rightly or wrongly emphasise divisions amongst the population.

Sorry but Like Wormy said, there is St Patrick's day and I don't see how that causes a problem.

This is England, and while I would welcome and encourage people who are not or do not think of themselves as English to join in the St Georges day events, I don't think we should not celebrate just because there are other races and religions that live here.

The problem lies in what you have said. Some seem to be assuming that 'the English' are of one colour and faith and have one history this is not true. Many English people are Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Catholic and are black, asian or chinese. A celebration of Englishness would have to be inclusive of all aspects of modern English society rather than concentrate on the old stereotypes of Englishness (warm beer, village greens, sunday cricket etc).

The reason why so many English born people from ethnic backgrounds don't consider themselves English is because they feel that to be 'English' you have to be white and C of E. I suspect that a celebration of St Georges day could be highjacked by those who would want to highlight the difference between what they consider 'English' and others living in England.

I also don't accept the point about St Patrick's day. What actually happens on St Patrick's day In England apart from people drinking cheap Guinness in the pub? We aren't told anything of Irish culture or history. We are not reminded of the oppression of the Irish over the years by the British. To be honest St Patrick's day to most English people is an exuse to get drunk in an Irish them pub. If that's the kind of St George's day you want then I don't see the point you can get cheap larger in the pubs any day of the year!

To really have a celebration of what is good about this country we should concentrate on the idea of an inclusive Britain without focusing on the racial divisions of suhc categories like English, Scottish, Welsh, black, white, Christian, Muslim or Jew.

Agreed to the post above.
In Wales, we celebrate Saint. David's day, and I'm pretty happy that it hasn't turned into just an excuse for drinking on the scale of St. Patrick's.
In school and uni, we celebrate in terms of heritage via the eisteddfodd and there's always displays held on the day itself. Although I like this idea, I would actually prefer a 'UKday' - seems better to celebrate the history of the united kingdom, than of an individual country. Saying that, we can celebrate the history but also embrace how multi-cultural it is now.

I think commercialism has made this day more than it is. Im proud to be English and thats enough for me. People I know use the flag of St George for some sort of nationalist statement. England is unique and it doesnt need any flag days.

Mauri wrote:

I suspect that a celebration of St Georges day could be highjacked by those who would want to highlight the difference between what they consider 'English' and others living in England.

I also don't accept the point about St Patrick's day. What actually happens on St Patrick's day In England apart from people drinking cheap Guinness in the pub? We aren't told anything of Irish culture or history. We are not reminded of the oppression of the Irish over the years by the British. To be honest St Patrick's day to most English people is an exuse to get drunk in an Irish them pub. .

To not celebrate St Georges Day because of fear of hijack isn't a reason not to have it. If people try to do that, we as a society should and would put a stop to it (nobly English).

And not everyone uses St Patricks Day to get drunk. It's a celebration of being Irish. The Irish are incredibly patriotic and that day is incredibly important in helping that.

I agree 100% we shouldn't exclude all of England's citizens when we celebrate St Georges Day - I never claimed we should nor do I think it would. The day would enable anyone involved in being part of England to celebrate the English way of life whoever they are.

England is one of the few countries in the world that doesn't have a public holiday to celebrate it's national day so it's hardly a new concept. We shouldn't let England disappear - this is a great country with a lot to be proud of. It seems to me this country is scared to do anything patriotic in case of offending others which is wrong. I think there is a great passion for this actually - the peoples who live in England love their country - they just don't get a chance to show it.

WormThatTurned wrote:

And not everyone uses St Patricks Day to get drunk. It's a celebration of being Irish. The Irish are incredibly patriotic and that day is incredibly important in helping that.

I agree 100% we shouldn't exclude all of England's citizens when we celebrate St Georges Day - I never claimed we should nor do I think it would. The day would enable anyone involved in being part of England to celebrate the English way of life whoever they are.

England is one of the few countries in the world that doesn't have a public holiday to celebrate it's national day so it's hardly a new concept. We shouldn't let England disappear - this is a great country with a lot to be proud of. It seems to me this country is scared to do anything patriotic in case of offending others which is wrong. I think there is a great passion for this actually - the peoples who live in England love their country - they just don't get a chance to show it.

But what is the 'English' way of life? Don't people living on housing estates in Scotland have more in common with people on estates in Liverpool than others living in leafy suburbs in Surrey? I can see there is a lot to celebrate about Britain as a multiracial society but I don't see the 'Englishness' part.

The reason that the Irish and the Scots and to a lesser extent the Welsh have such strong national identities is because throughout history they have been minorities under attack from the English (occupation of Ireland, Land clearances in Scotland, economic oppression in Wales etc.). A sense on national pride for minority groups is a strong way to defend yourself against the hostile majority and a way to ensure you are not totally swallowed up by them. The same effect can be seen in Spain with the Basques and in France with the Bretons or Corsicans. Of course that is mostly in the past but national collective memory lasts a long time.

The English have never been a minority they have never had to defend their national identity and they don't need to do it now. I simply don't see the point and I suspect many people would think of such a celebration as a means of establising divisions between the 'True' English and those late comers who threaten the 'English' way of life.

Mauri wrote:

The English have never been a minority they have never had to defend their national identity and they don't need to do it now

I strongly disagree. You always need to protect your national identity.

The English identity? Well, if we look at it historically, England is seen as an agresser, invader, dictator - you name it. Hell, its still happening with the buying up of foreign property as investment. And touching on the other intergration thread, the English certainly do not make a great impression when they retire into the sun and set up 'little England' wherever they land.

Sorry to be a downer on it but there is still raw feeling the world over about it and its still got a bit of time till that passes.

Mauri is bang on when saying that the other parts of the UK are much more patriotic because they have HAD to be to keep their national identity alive against the threat of the English. And still do!

You are an arrogant nation who see Britain as England with a couple of annoyances added on.

drewboy wrote:

!

You are an arrogant nation who see Britain as England with a couple of annoyances added on.

Generalization.

drewboy wrote:

The English identity? Well, if we look at it historically, England is seen as an agresser, invader, dictator - you name it. Hell, its still happening with the buying up of foreign property as investment. And touching on the other intergration thread, the English certainly do not make a great impression when they retire into the sun and set up 'little England' wherever they land.

Sorry to be a downer on it but there is still raw feeling the world over about it and its still got a bit of time till that passes.

Mauri is bang on when saying that the other parts of the UK are much more patriotic because they have HAD to be to keep their national identity alive against the threat of the English. And still do!

I'm sorry but most of that is garbage.

English people have as much right as any other nation to celebrate their national day. Even if it has wronged in the past (so have most countries) doesn't mean todays English citizens have to suffer for it.

I didn't say they don't.

(And before anyone says anything, I happen to be English - but also realistic)

WormThatTurned wrote:

drewboy wrote:

!

You are an arrogant nation who see Britain as England with a couple of annoyances added on.

Generalization.

What is a national identity if it isnt a generalisation?

Oh, and in case it wasn't entirely obvious, I wasn't saying that I believed that, the whole point was that I do believe that is how the country is percieved.

But a perception isn't reality and it doesn't mean it should affect whether we have this day or not.

I think theres a huge appetite for this day from all walks of life. I would support a referendum on the issue in case my judgement is misguided.

I was only offering a view that others see the English Identity - not that the day shouldn't happen.

However, most countries have traditions around their 'days'. A tradition is not an easy thing to start.