St Georges day holiday

WormThatTurned wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

You didn't explain why its important.

I believe this country is a fantastic country. I am proud to be an Englishmen. I think a national holiday on our national day is a great opportunity for people to celebrate our country.

but HOW do you propose to celebrate it?

Do you want to link this in with the other topic of binge drinking and see us all hit the streets in daft hats and get stupidly drunk like the Irish? Because you condemn that behaviour on another thread..

No.

You can celebrate without getting blind drunk, funnily enough.

Tell that to most people I see out and about on St George's Day.

So if not that then what?

PLEASE - for the third time of asking what terribly important ways of celebrating do you want a national holiday for?

fizzywizzy wrote:

but HOW do you propose to celebrate it?

For goodness sake Fizzy, stop repeating the question. I'm not English but it's bloody obvious how you would go about celebrating it without getting blind drunk.
For example - parades, fairs, English-based charity organisations, speech from the prime minister, displays which show English heritage, services and parties which take in the multi-cultural aspects of the country - the list could go on. You'd celebrate it the same way everyone else celebrates their national day.
The number of people that get drunk doing it is a small minority.

What would you do and wear to celebrate? Please dont mention Morris Dancing...

What? What has 'what would you wear' got to do with deciding if it's a good idea or not? I wouldn't do anything to celebrate. England's not my country - but I've mentioned things above that I would be part of, if it was.

I would think my village would put on a show.

We have the East Bridgford show already...which lasts a week...all kinds of activity and not all alcohol related..

Sam_Garland wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

but HOW do you propose to celebrate it?

For goodness sake Fizzy, stop repeating the question. I'm not English but it's bloody obvious how you would go about celebrating it without getting blind drunk.
For example - parades, fairs, English-based charity organisations, speech from the prime minister, displays which show English heritage, services and parties which take in the multi-cultural aspects of the country - the list could go on. You'd celebrate it the same way everyone else celebrates their national day.
The number of people that get drunk doing it is a small minority.

But we already do all those things. That is why I repeated the question - I wasn't hearing anything new being added to what already goes on in this country without it having to be a holiday.

Nothings done on St Georges Day round here or where I used to live - in fact I bet a lot of people don't even know when it is.

but...we dont DO anything on May Day...(in fact that holiday has some negative aspects to it does it not) a few fools might sit in traffic, but we dont do anything of any mention..

Contrast that with Australia Day...or 4th July...fireworks, parties, barbies etc...

Good point on May Day. And how may dads who take paternity leave actually help mum with the kids! I think when u start to need to know your identity your on the slippery slope.

Ziggy! wrote:

And how may dads who take maternity leave ...

None I hope...unless there is a part of Medical science I have missed...!!!

Paternity leave;>

well, thankfully most of the Guys I know who have taken paternity leave (or are about too...my boss's wife had baby today...colleague having baby by C on Thu...ARE very involved...

Not quite sure of the link between that and St George's Day however..are more english babies born on st George's day than any other day?

Ziggy! wrote:

. And how may dads who take paternity leave actually help mum with the kids! .

What has that got to do with anythng??

From all the dad's I have ever known to take paternity leave they have always taken the time off to help the mum and get to know the baby.

Thats what Wormy's intention is anyway

I just think that you can't make people feel more "English" and you can't construct an identity that doesn't really exist. I am perfectly comfortable with my concept of who I am (incidentally I feel European first, British second, English third) and I don't see how a Bank Holiday can make us all get along any better.

The idea is quite a noble one but the reality is that it will be hi-jacked by those wishing to push nationalist or racist agendas rather than a celebration of all the cultures that co-exist here.

That said, I don't want another Bank Holiday at that time of year. Give me one in October instead. I'm off to look up an excuse for a holiday in the autumn sometime...

My point is will people actually celebrate Britain Day, or will they pi** off to the contient for a long weekend in Brussels. There is NO reason to be celebrating Britishness as it will only encourage racism in some form in the UK...Will you be inviting,say.. Somalis to your bash! And if so whats the point. After a few beers I can only imagine a couple of conversations had at these getherings.

Ziggy! wrote:

My point is will people actually celebrate Britain Day, or will they pi** off to the contient for a long weekend in Brussels. There is NO reason to be celebrating Britishness as it will only encourage racism in some form in the UK...Will you be inviting,say.. Somalis to your bash! And if so whats the point. After a few beers I can only imagine a couple of conversations had at these getherings.

People have such different views as to what "Britishness" is. It wil probably be very different in inner city areas to rural villages.

I would be interested to know what people think "Britishness" is.

I would say tutting, a fondness for queuing and an amazing capacity to watch television for mammoth amounts of time while moaning that there is nothing worth watching.

fizzywizzy wrote:

Ziggy! wrote:

My point is will people actually celebrate Britain Day, or will they pi** off to the contient for a long weekend in Brussels. There is NO reason to be celebrating Britishness as it will only encourage racism in some form in the UK...Will you be inviting,say.. Somalis to your bash! And if so whats the point. After a few beers I can only imagine a couple of conversations had at these getherings.

People have such different views as to what "Britishness" is. It wil probably be very different in inner city areas to rural villages.

I would be interested to know what people think "Britishness" is.

I would say tutting, a fondness for queuing and an amazing capacity to watch television for mammoth amounts of time while moaning that there is nothing worth watching.

In my opinion Britishness is not race specific. I lived the early part of my life in Italy and all my family is Italian although I've lived in Engalnd for the majority of my life I don't consider myself English but while I still have strong attachments to my Italian origins, I can see myself as British.

I see Britishness as a much more inclusive label that people from all backgrounds who are born here or who have decided to live here can feel a sense of belonging to. I think people from an ethnic background would be more prepared to see themsleves as 'British' (british muslim, British Jew, British Chinese, British West Indian rather than English etc). I think this is largely to do with the rightly or wrongly perceived exclusivity of Englishness to the 'white anglo saxons'.

What would you celebrate on a Britain day? Well in Britain although we have made our fair share of mistakes in the past we can still be proud of many achievement in the arts music, culture in general. Sport, Literature science etc. whicn could be highlighted on such a day. Other countries have also had many achivements in these fields so it's not an exclusive celebration of British achivements, we are not saying that we are the best but or highlighting differences between people but simply celebrating things that we can be proud of.

For me that could work and it could create a sense of belonging for all the different ethnic groups that make up modern Britain. Whereas celebrating Englishness I don't think would have the same effect.

Mauri wrote:

fizzywizzy wrote:

Ziggy! wrote:

My point is will people actually celebrate Britain Day, or will they pi** off to the contient for a long weekend in Brussels. There is NO reason to be celebrating Britishness as it will only encourage racism in some form in the UK...Will you be inviting,say.. Somalis to your bash! And if so whats the point. After a few beers I can only imagine a couple of conversations had at these getherings.

People have such different views as to what "Britishness" is. It wil probably be very different in inner city areas to rural villages.

I would be interested to know what people think "Britishness" is.

I would say tutting, a fondness for queuing and an amazing capacity to watch television for mammoth amounts of time while moaning that there is nothing worth watching.

In my opinion Britishness is not race specific. I lived the early part of my life in Italy and all my family is Italian although I've lived in Engalnd for the majority of my life I don't consider myself English but while I still have strong attachments to my Italian origins, I can see myself as British.

I see Britishness as a much more inclusive label that people from all backgrounds who are born here or who have decided to live here can feel a sense of belonging to. I think people from an ethnic background would be more prepared to see themsleves as 'British' (british muslim, British Jew, British Chinese, British West Indian rather than English etc). I think this is largely to do with the rightly or wrongly perceived exclusivity of Englishness to the 'white anglo saxons'.

What would you celebrate on a Britain day? Well in Britain although we have made our fair share of mistakes in the past we can still be proud of many achievement in the arts music, culture in general. Sport, Literature science etc. whicn could be highlighted on such a day. Other countries have also had many achivements in these fields so it's not an exclusive celebration of British achivements, we are not saying that we are the best but or highlighting differences between people but simply celebrating things that we can be proud of.

For me that could work and it could create a sense of belonging for all the different ethnic groups that make up modern Britain. Whereas celebrating Englishness I don't think would have the same effect.

That's certainly the best answer I have heard but I am still not convinced. I think we are pretty good already at celebrating British achievement and I'm not sure we need a day dedicated to it. Which is more Scottish - Burns night or St Andrews Day? Which to you sums up the attitude and spirit of the Welsh more - St Davids Day or hearing the chorus of Welsh rubgy supporters at the Millenium stadium?

I think the sort of events you describe go on all the time and so they should.

But most of all I am not sure that those shouting loudest for such a day share this noble ideal.

And i would certainly agrre that - if anything - celebrate Britishness rather than Englishness if the intent is to promote unity and cohesion. However, isn't all the fuss about wanting to make St George's Day a holiday?

fizzywizzy wrote:

And i would certainly agrre that - if anything - celebrate Britishness rather than Englishness if the intent is to promote unity and cohesion. However, isn't all the fuss about wanting to make St George's Day a holiday?

The original idea by Ruth Kelly (I think) was to have a 'Britain Day' to promote a sense of Britishness especailly amongst the British Ethnic communities. I think Wormy brought up the idea or St George's Day and 'English Day'.

I'm not particularly in favour of a Britain day although I can see that the idea is a good one in principle and something needs to be done to reach out to communities that although British by birth and geography don't feel any affinity with this country.

I am less keen for 'England day' since I feel even with the best intentions this will create or emphasise divisions even more and Englishness as a concept that without going down the road or nationalism and xenophobia is more difficult to pin down.

Mauri wrote:

I think this is largely to do with the rightly or wrongly perceived exclusivity of Englishness to the 'white anglo saxons'.

My mothers mother is a Dane. My mothers grandfather was an east european jewish immigrant. I have hardly any anglo saxon blood in me but I was born here and I'm 100% English.

WormThatTurned wrote:

Mauri wrote:

I think this is largely to do with the rightly or wrongly perceived exclusivity of Englishness to the 'white anglo saxons'.

My mothers mother is a Dane. My mothers grandfather was an east european jewish immigrant. I have hardly any anglo saxon blood in me but I was born here and I'm 100% English.

I would feel more comfortable with the idea of celebrating Britishness than Englishness - and I'm 100% English in that I was born here as were my parents. I do worry that the aim of many of the people who are depserate to have this holiday wish to use it to exclude rather than include.