VHS versus DVD reviews?

Kollarosie said:

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1) If your film review doesn't include DVD extras, the Dooyoo movie guide automatically gives you a "Somewhat Useful" or "Not Useful" rating.

2) I've been told to move film reviews that don't include extras to the VHS category - despite the fact i haven't watched a VHS tape in donkey's years. (IE: to avoid low ratings I have to lie about what format I saw it on)

3) I've noticed also this week that if you mention you're not reviewing the extras you get marked down by other members. But, if you fail to mention the fact that you're not reviewing the extras, or indeed just list the extras in a series of bullet points (something anyone can copy & paste from Amazon), no one seems to mind.


Just wondered what you thought about these points?

The Guidelines from dooyoo HQ have been made clear after debate with the Guides as to how we should treat a DVD compared to a VHS. The powers that be state that any review in the DVD section is to be treated as such which means mentioning extras, lack thereof and formats (writing "It has no extras" does not wash, you better be sure it hasn't, neither does writing "Mine is a rental". VHS is to be treated as film only as few, if any VHS films would come with extras. Dooyoo are planning to rename the section in the future.

Other members will rate as they like as is their right but if you post a film review in DVD then you have expect SU's from the Guides. You will find other members are following suit now that the policy has been explained to them.

NB: Anyone who posts a film/VHS review in DVD should ask a guide to get it moved as it will be done relatively quickly.

Berlioz said:

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Does that mean if you talk of the DVD itself by including picture quality, sound quality, etc. it can be accepted as being a DVD review even if there are no extras included, or is it just about the extras?

Sandemp said:

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If there are no special features, then yes because you're still talking about the actual DVD (rather than just the film). Also you could mention such things as subtitles (if it's a foreign film).

Mum52 said:

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I don't want to be told how to rate but what I might like to do is write something and be confident that my opinion of a product is being rated, not whether some unclear rule about whether it's in the wrong place or not is being applied. If I'd put a review of a dvd or video in a book category all well and good. I don't understand the need to separate it so finely, but it's up to Dooyoo of course to do as they see fit on their site. But, shouldn't these category guidelines be there for everybody to see, otherwise things end up in the wrong place and, you know, people get hurt by being given low ratings for a reason they haven't understood.

What you seem to be saying is that everybody should rate as they want to but then ... if anybody wants to rate 'appropriately' they have to look at the guides 'about me' read the 'guidelines' and then go back to the review. It seems a very complicated way of going about something.

If something's in the wrong place why can't the guides just move it to the right place (or arrange for it to be moved) and tell the person afterwards?

thingywhatist said:

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I too find it unclear why there are one set of rules for guides and one set for members. Enlighten me. I may be thick but I thought we were all members working together.

The guidelines are not unclear. If you post a film only review in the DVD category guides will rate it SU as we believe extras are a vital part of the review. As there is a VHS section (which will be getting renamed I have been assured) then there really is no reason to post a film only review in DVD. However, if you do the Guides do state that they will happily request the review to be moved (in their comments) so they can receive the rates they deserve. If you do not want SU rates then do not post a film only review in DVD. If you can live with a difference of opinion then don't moan and get the rates you receive.

I fail to see why people feel the need to post in DVD when there is a VHS category but if they choose to do so when there is an efficient product suggestion tool in place they should fully expect those who believe extras to be important to rate them down. As a group the guides believe extras are important and think an SU is an appropriate rate for those who fail to mention them. However, because we feel extras are appropriate it does not mean you do. This is a guideline Guides have created to ensure we rate with continuity and we all share the samne opinion (that extras are vital to a DVD review), people who agree with this opinion may also SU but that is THEIR choice. Those that do not rate differently. It is all a matter of perception.

Why are we all members working together? Nobody at dooyoo wants a rating consensus. We should be rating and acting as individuals. Although I am a guide I do not rate the same as other guides. I believe that DVD extras are vital so rate a review as SU. Other guides believe the same. However, I have SU'd reviews that other guides or members rate VU. I will repeat myself, rate as you see fit. You find extras essential, rate down if they are not there. If you don't rate up. Is it really such a complex idea?

soundsexciting said:

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Using a VHS category to post a film only review of a DVD is nonsensical to me. Thats why people post a DVD review in a DVD category. Its logical to assume that a DVD review should be stuck under a dvd category

If dooyoo are changing the name of the VHS category then that doesn't make sense either. I suppose you'll then start downrating anyone who reviews a video tape and sticks it under the renamed category. You can't critisise people who post a film only review of a dvd in the dvd category because its the logical thing to do. Now if the DVD had a sub category then that would make sense. Its illogical to rename an existing category to make up for the short comings of another category.

Dooyoo first doesn't provide a correctly named category for peoples film only review and then encourage guides to downrate reviews when they are posted in the dvd category. And the guides hardly help matters by blindly following the rules without pointing it out the inconsistency to dooyoo or campaigning for a change.

Its silly stating 'As there is a VHS section....'. A VHS section is for video tapes. A DVD section is for DVDs. You make it sound like dooyoo have a guideline that states that film only reviews should be stuck under an inappropriate category.

Hardly fair, hardly consistent.

Where is the lack of fairness and inconsistency? I have explained why I rate as I do and I rate the same across the board. This IS fair and consistent. The VHS section is poorly named this is something members and dooyoo surely agree on? As such dooyoo will be renaming it to bring it in line with advancements in technology. If you post a review of the film without mentioning the DVD extras, format etc then its not a DVD review and I can only presume you either saw it at the pictures, have seen it on sky or on VHS. As such I will continue to rate down anyone who posts a review only mentioning the film in the DVD category.

How would someone post a tape review in film only? "I have a tape it is six inches by four and it has a picture of Kevin Costner on it". What does not make sense about changing the category name? Seems like an obvious progression and a step in the right direction to me.

Kollarosie said:

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I've read a lot of DVD reviews in the last week and I've come away with this conclusion. When they write a DVD review, one member in particular gets a crown every single time. For this reason, i think their formula should surely close the book on this whole debate of what makes a good, useful and valid DVD review. Yes? No?

The formula is this:

1 - Synopsis of film and the reviewer's thoughts
2 - Presentation - inc. packaging, sound and picture quality
3 - Special Features / Extras
4 - Conclusion
5 - Technical stuff

So, I guess until DooYoo change the VHS category to FILM category, we either stick to the above formula or accept the fact we're going to get SU/NH ratings from some, no matter how amazing the review of the actual film itself was.

badcompany77 said:

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I understand the fact now that posting a dvd review without the extras is a waste of time. It doesn't matter if your review is well written and points someone in towards watching a good film, or not watching one if it's bad. But if you post it without extras then it has no chance of getting a crown and will be totally rated down by guides and other certain members. I also know they are totally right in doing that but I personally will never do another movie dvd review because I never look at the extras and don't intend to. I think I will instead just post to the movie section, oh and for the record I think Dave is right in his rating and right in what he has been saying. Extras are part of the product being reviewed so like it or not have to be included. I HATE EXTRAS !!!!

Soundsexciting said:

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Nobody is disputing that extras should be written about. The issue (for me) was that people get down rated for not including extras in their review and then getting told that they would get a higher rating by moving the review into a VHS section which is ludicrous given that the review is about a dvd.
However the VHS section will apparently be renamed. Could take days, months, years even.
But in the meantime, people will continue to be asked to post a reviews of a dvd into the vhs section if it makes no mention of the extras on the dvd otherwise risk having it rated SU by default by guides who won't explain the situation to them until after the event.

Sandemp said:

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If you don't like watching special features then don't let that put you off writing film reviews, just post them in the relevant VHS category. As I've said before I'm pretty certain that the DVD vs film-only/VHS situation hasn't changed in the time I've been a member of Dooyoo. And if you go back a few months (not sure exactly how many) Ciao used to have the same way of seperating the two different types of review, with there being seperate categories for films and DVDs. It's only really been since Ciao merged the 2 categories that there's been any confusion.

Just remember these simple rules and you can't go wrong :

The VHS category is for film-only reviews.

The DVD category is for reviews of the complete DVD with opinion on the film/programme, presentation and special features.

It isn't fair for people who don't realise Dooyoo can't currently change the category databases - it's not clear. That's why there's no PSP category yet, for example. I'm not sure people who have only recently spent much time at Dooyoo realise what a state the site had got into after a couple of years of neglect. They are changing things, and for the better too, but it will take months and months to do it all, including renaming the VHS category.

Therefore, a better reaction than bitching and moaning is to spread the word. It's all very simple once you realise that the categories SHOULD read 'Film Only' and 'DVD'. Only the frighteningly stupid wouldn't be able to differentiate. The only way people aren't going to be unfairly disadvantaged by not knowing this is what it SHOULD (and WILL) be, is to get out there and spread the word. So don't whinge, go and play Chinese Whispers. Y'know?

Might be helpful Jill were you to explain from a rating point of view as well. I have been told that I rate according to the usefulness of the review to me. Don't like extras so a film only review would be very helpful if it contained all the right stuff, but if a film only review is in the DVD slot, then basically it's off topic isn't it or at best incomplete. How would members or should members deal with rating a review in the wrong slot ?

Admin wrote:

Might be helpful Jill were you to explain from a rating point of view as well. I have been told that I rate according to the usefulness of the review to me. Don't like extras so a film only review would be very helpful if it contained all the right stuff, but if a film only review is in the DVD slot, then basically it's off topic isn't it or at best incomplete. How would members or should members deal with rating a review in the wrong slot ?

But you feel it is not off topic Rachel so you should rate it as if it is on topic. You rate how you feel the review is useful. I feel it is off topic so I will rate it SU at best.

Would it not be more helpful for Dooyoo as a site, bearing in mind the fact that they are making VHS film only, if we were to ask in comments for review writers to get their review moved over at least. That seems to make perfect sense to me and would help dooyoo to sort out all the reviews in the wrong place. It may still be VH to me, but if it is in the wrong place, surely that is our responsibility to spread the word as Jill says.

Its only your responsibility if you believe it. No point telling people to do something if you do not believe in it.

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Its only your responsibility if you believe it. No point telling people to do something if you do not believe in it.

It is not a question of believing it.

FACT

Film only reviews should be in VHS section
DVD reviews in DVD section.

ready for the change of the site, diffentiating film only reviews and DVD only reviews. Surely it is important that members are aware of what dooyoo are doing and why, and comply with it.

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Might be helpful Jill were you to explain from a rating point of view as well. I have been told that I rate according to the usefulness of the review to me. Don't like extras so a film only review would be very helpful if it contained all the right stuff, but if a film only review is in the DVD slot, then basically it's off topic isn't it or at best incomplete. How would members or should members deal with rating a review in the wrong slot ?

What you're doing, Rachel, and I think what a lot of people are doing, is approaching this completely the wrong way. It's a RELEVANCE TO THE CATEGORY issue, not a personal rating issue. Follow this order of thinking:

1. Dooyoo are idiots and have a VHS category which they mean to be a Film Only category, but are so busy putting right all the neglect of the last years, changing the name isn't going to happen tomorrow.

2. Therefore, there is a Film Only category and a DVD category (this is the bit we need to spread the word about cos one is named wrongly).

3. If you watch a film - whether at the cinema, on Sky, by renting or buying a DVD or by renting or buying a DVD - and you only want to review the film because DVD transfer/extras/overall package is of no interest to you, then WHAT are you reviewing? The film or the DVD? The film.

4. If someone writes about only the film and puts it in the DVD category, then they are pretty much OFF TOPIC. It would be like writing about the plot of a novel and putting it in the Audio Book category. Anyone can see that's OFF TOPIC. See? It's relevance to the category heading that counts, not what is anyone's personal view on extras. That is just a big fat red herring that seems to be confusing everyone.

Consider relevance to the category heading and it all makes sense.

Personally, I think extras are for trainspotters and don't give a stuff about them. However, I wouldn't rate a DVD review that didn't mention that stuff because the review would not be suitable for the category heading in the same way that posting a list of answers to questions about one's erotic dreams does not address the category heading of 'should Dooyoo have an erotic category?'

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However, I wouldn't rate a DVD review that didn't mention that stuff because the review would not be suitable for the category heading

Wouldn't rate ? or wouldn't rate anything more than its usefulness ?

Oops. Sorry! That'll teach me to operate one window at a time!

I wouldn't rate 'highly'. As Dooyoo doesn't have an Off Topic button, I'd probably SU. And if the review of the film was crapola to boot, I'd probably NU.

The crux of the matter is that a Film Only review in the DVD category is AT LEAST 50% off topic. See?

Great. Plain English that all members can understand.

Seriously? You get it now? Yay me!

Yup so your time was not wasted. Thanks Jill. It helps not only me but a lot of other members as well.