Up rating.

Okay today we talked about downrating so we might as well carry on the trend with a thread on uprating. I have removed all traces of a conversation in my guestbook so please dont even go there, but basically what it was about was people seeing a load of Es on a review and feeling bad about giving the review a VH ! Have you ever heard anything as silly ! What are members views ?

I've felt like that sometimes. Like when you come across a review with 60%+ E ratings, but I only want to give it a VH (usually because its just so damn long that I completely lost interest halfway through). It almost makes me feel guilty about going against the trend, but also that I don't want to give an E just because everyone else did. Sometimes I do give in an give the E, other times I give the VH I was going to, and sometimes I just don't rate it at all because I can't decide - it all depends on my mood!

I made it my rule not to rate anything E so I have no problems giving the review VH rating. I even rated reviews with mainly E ratings H and was forced to leave a comment because it was two lower than the average.

Quote :

I made it my rule not to rate anything E

Then what happens if you find a review that actually is exceptional ? Hardly seems fair on those that actually do make the effort, and write a review that is outstanding.

I hand 'E' ratings out as and where I see fit, If a review was to have 90% 'E' ratings I would still rate it VH if that's what I thought it was. I think some members do however feel forced into giving one where a review has a high percentage of 'E' ratings, although I don't know why. Lisa x

Minnitee wrote:

I made it my rule not to rate anything E so I have no problems giving the review VH rating. I even rated reviews with mainly E ratings H and was forced to leave a comment because it was two lower than the average.

Surely never giving an E is as bad as never giving an H - you aren't using the full range of the available rates.

The range is there to be used and to discriminate between reviews of different quality. Making a 'no-E' policy is rather against the spirit of the site.

Giving an E doesn't cost anything, I agree, and there are reviews that do warrant it, as they are exceptional.

But answering the first point, I dont really have a problem, rating a VH, after all, what if I had ran out of Es as it were...!

Now that I will never understand in a million years. To run out of E's is something I have not "achieved" in four or is it five years. Not sure but it seems an eternity.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

Quote :

I made it my rule not to rate anything E

Then what happens if you find a review that actually is exceptional ? Hardly seems fair on those that actually do make the effort, and write a review that is outstanding.

Not at all, E is a new-ish addition to Ciao. It used to work with ratings from NH to VH before and there are other members who do not rate E. Why should I have to be forced to rate something E when I don't think it's necessary.

After the Ciao revamp I would have preferred to see a N for neutral instead of E rating added.

I know a lot of people work towards an all exceptional rating on their review, it looks good but what does it ultimately mean? It doesn't pay more and in a lot of cases it's information overload, in particular when it's a technical review with lots of lists and technical references. One of my former bosses once said - when talking to clients of his - BS baffles brains and I'm totally on his side.

I don't expect to have a certain amount of E ratings on my reviews (someone once said to me in my GB they tried to keep it at 20% and above) but that's not me. If the review is informative and covers all aspects of what I want to know it's Very Helpful.

Minnitee wrote:

I know a lot of people work towards an all exceptional rating on their review, it looks good but what does it ultimately mean? It doesn't pay more and in a lot of cases it's information overload, in particular when it's a technical review with lots of lists and technical references. One of my former bosses once said - when talking to clients of his - BS baffles brains and I'm totally on his side.

I don't expect to have a certain amount of E ratings on my reviews (someone once said to me in my GB they tried to keep it at 20% and above) but that's not me. If the review is informative and covers all aspects of what I want to know it's Very Helpful.

I'm in agreement here. However, when I write, I do so with the knowledge that someone with similar requirements and needs to my own will find what I write to be VH. If they're appreciative of my presentation, that might well get me an E. I do realise that not everyone has the same requirements or needs that I do, so I do not expect VHs or Es across the board, but that's getting back into the ratings issue again.

They brought the E rating in years ago, at least well over 3 years, in the major revamp when they changed the whole guestbook thing as well, among other things.

I agree with your comments about E not being length related and can be information overload, but then it is down to how it is given I guess.

I dont expect I am anything like 20% E ratings (given I was here for 3 years before they brought it in..that might be one of those statistical impossibilities!!) but it is still nice to receive them, it's just a recognition of exceptional effort and given that there is not much money in this review writing lark, then praise is just as good (probably better!)

(checks stats). I have given out 552, which I guess is one every other day for three years roughly, so in that sense yes five a day would be more than adequate.

I have received 702, and I know I am pleased when I get them ..

In the same period Helen I have given out 563 so you and I are pretty much on a par with our thinking. I keep them for what I consider to be the cream of the crop since giving them to anyone else belittles the whole idea, and if someone gets one from me, at least they know it's because I meant it.

When I was on Ciao first time round I made it barely into double figures with my E ratings - and most of them given for Cafe submissions.

I was very stingy then and it's not changed.

There's a difference between being stingy and denying anyone an E rating.

I've used every rate in the range -- I assumed that's what they are there for.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

There's a difference between being stingy and denying anyone an E rating.

But what am I actually denying the member?

Is VH a very positive rating? YES
Does he/she get paid? YES

The only thing I'm actually denying the member is bragging and boasting rights to another E on their review and statistics. Since when has Ciao become a race deciding what member accumulated the most E ratings on their reviews, overall E rated reviews and so on.

On the one hand you're saying that you don't care about E ratings but then you say that by not dishing them out I'm denying members something. The question is, what exaxtly am I denying the member? As long as I rate it shouldn't matter. Community points are the same, payment is the same. Of course an E rating looks so much better on a review than a plain VH.

Dooyoo don't have E ratings and nobody wants to know when they will appear, members simply accept that VU is the highest rating possible and even if it's so much better than the average, it's still only VU. Everybody's happy, nobody complains.

The worst Ciao did was introduce E ratings. It's been discussed to death, E ratings are the new VH and not even daily limits imposed by Ciao can't distract from the fact that a lot of E ratings are given in the hope of the recipient returning the favour.

I realise that the E rating was the worst thing they ever introduced and agree with it, which is why I am so careful with my use of them. I hope you don't expect an E on any of your reviews IF you have decided that no review is good enough to reach the E standard, because otherwise it really is not right that you do not use the full range of ratings available to you. Its not a matter of how much anyone gets paid. It is a matter of which reviews get considered for premium fund diamonds, backed by an E rating or by recommendation. It's like me saying there is no difference between SH and NH. Neither pay so what the stuff ? but if we all thought that way, the ratings really would be unjust. I know the difference between an NH and an SH and do differentiate just as I know the difference between a VH and an E. Your argument is flawed.

Thingywhatsit wrote:

I hope you don't expect an E on any of your reviews IF you have decided that no review is good enough to reach the E standard, because otherwise it really is not right that you do not use the full range of ratings available to you.

I agree that people who don't give out E's by pinciple shouldn't accept them either from other users.

I consider the rating system as a 5-star system, similar to the product ratings.

NH= * Very Poor
SH= ** Poor
H= *** Average
VH= **** Good
E = ***** Excellent

I see no problem rating an overall E review VH, as it is still considered a good rating. When I rate a review I don't usually look at how helpful I personally find it, but rather how helpful I think the consumers will find it. If a review is generally well-written and covers most aspects of the product, I will rate it VH. If the review covers all possible aspects of the product, as well as being well-written, I will give it an E. I also give an E for Ciao Cafe pieces that I find highly entertaining and interesting.

Whether we like it or not the E rating is there and I suppose if we sign up to be part of Ciao then we sign up to use the rating system as they wish. I don't think saying you will never rate E is right.

Having said this I only very very rarely rate with an E. For me E should really mean 'Exceptional' and exceptional by definition shouldn't be that common...

I don't think lenght has anything to do with it infact for me exceptional is more about style and presentation. Yes, the review does have to cover all the relevant info etc. but it has to have something extra, the X factor if you like that makes it stand out from the simply Very Good.

I never feel pressurised to rate E if I see many others have done so, the E rating even more than the other ratings is a personal view of the review and I would find it incredible if a review achieved 100% E ratings.

Sorry to be the one who goes against the run of opinion on this but I would probably give up on Ciao totally if they didn't have E's. For me it's the only positive thing that sets it apart from dooyoo.

I want/need to be able to show someone that I think what they have written goes beyond the norm and has really impressed me.

Yes, some people give out too many of them, some people maybe think an E can buy them friends but in a mass of VH rated reviews, there needs to be something to set the best ones (in this case, I mean the ones that the members consider to be best, not a bunch of faceless non-members googling for reviews) apart from the bulk - let's be honest, none of us think the diamond system achieves that any more.

Chuchy wrote:

When I rate a review I don't usually look at how helpful I personally find it, but rather how helpful I think the consumers will find it.

Then you might as well rate everything as E or VH because, statistically speaking, someone out there will find the review to be excellent or at least very helpful.

koshkha wrote:

I've used every rate in the range -- I assumed that's what they are there for.

Exactly, to say that you never award them and quote is as a principle to be proud of is a bit pointless, why bother rating in the first place if you have no intention of using the range available to you, does not mean you have to rate a certain % in that way merely that you rate on merit.

Ciao's Favourite Member wrote:

Chuchy wrote:

When I rate a review I don't usually look at how helpful I personally find it, but rather how helpful I think the consumers will find it.

Then you might as well rate everything as E or VH because, statistically speaking, someone out there will find the review to be excellent or at least very helpful.

I write my reviews for the consumers and not for the members. Ciao Cafe pieces are for the members. When you rate a product this line appears above the rating buttons:

"How helpful would this review be to someone making a buying decision?"

It doesn't say how helpful do you personally find this review, does it?

Chuchy wrote:

I write my reviews for the consumers and not for the members. Ciao pieces are for the members.

What's that got to do with you rating? I write for myself and anyone that has similar needs and requirements to my own, be they member or non-member, but that's a fairly irrelevant point.

Chuchy wrote:

When you rate a product this line appears above the rating buttons:

"How helpful would this review be to someone making a buying decision?"

It doesn't say how helpful do you personally find this review, does it?

I don't see how you can claim to be able to rate for other people. As I've said, someone, somewhere will pretty much always find a review E or VH, just as someone will find it H or SH or NH. How do you pick which of these ratings to give out in your "voice of the people"?

What actually dictates how helpful a review is to someone making a buying decision is that if everyone rates as if THEY were making a purchasing decision and from that, the spread of ratings and overall rating actually shows how helpful the review is in general to the consumer.

By adding YOUR rating to the existing ratings pool, that's how you show the overall helpfulness of a review.

Ciao's Favourite Member wrote:

What actually dictates how helpful a review is to someone making a buying decision is that if everyone rates as if THEY were making a purchasing decision and from that, the spread of ratings and overall rating actually shows how helpful the review is in general to the consumer.

By adding YOUR rating to the existing ratings pool, that's how you show the overall helpfulness of a review.

That actually makes sense. I think most of the reviews on Ciao will be regarded VH by most consumers because they are generally well-written and contain lots of useful information. However, there will always be a few customers out there with different expectations to the norm, and that minority of the consumers is represented in the SH and H ratings on the Ciao site. Yeah, it definitely makes sense that way. I will look at neutral and negative ratings in a completely different light from now on. They're nothing more than the representation of human nature and it's unrealistic to expect everyone to be the same. That was a very useful comment, thank you for that.