MADONNA IN THE NEWS.

Sam_Garland wrote:

Well, I've certainly met non-Christians who have been homophobic - being bigoted has little to do with religion, and a lot do with an individual.

oh god yeah (pardon the pun). Non christians do 'suffer' from that condition.

However I have had, on MANY an occasion, the bible quoted to me for being gay. It is not mutually exclusive. Not by a long shot. And to be fair, people who have said that they are not religious have STILL used the bible as an example believe it or not.

(Incidently, I find it a bit funny that Madonna's actions re the crucifix being discussed has turned to sexuality, what with her being one of the biggest gay icons!)

helencbradshaw wrote:

drewboy wrote:

Sam_Garland wrote:

And, although the religion itself disapproves of it, I've yet to meet a Christian who is against homosexuality. That's just an out-dated stereotype.

Well I most certainly have.

Yes, so have I. Quite a few, unfortunately.

OT I was looking for the War on Terror thread......I thought there would have been an active one by now..

you could have started one

I never said homophobia was unique to religious people but the difference being is that homophobic people who are not religious say "I do not like Gay people!" whilst religious people say "Gods says homosexuality is a sin!" and then go and molest children, have affairs and indulge in other illegal activities but claim "God" guided them.

I see what you mean - I suppose it goes back to the point made by drewboy - even people who aren't religious use the bible as an excuse for being homophobic.
Molesting children, having affairs and indulging in other illegal activities isn't exclusive to religious people though - in fact, I imagine that if you could actually do a poll or something, you'd find a smaller number of 'criminals' (for want of a better word) in the religious section of society.

Sam_Garland wrote:

I see what you mean - I suppose it goes back to the point made by drewboy - even people who aren't religious use the bible as an excuse for being homophobic.
Molesting children, having affairs and indulging in other illegal activities isn't exclusive to religious people though - in fact, I imagine that if you could actually do a poll or something, you'd find a smaller number of 'criminals' (for want of a better word) in the religious section of society.

Again, I never said anything was exclusive to religious people and the only reason you wont find as many religious people in prison is that the minor crimes which cause most prisoners to be housed in our jails are alcohol and drug related where as the more serious crimes are covered up by the church and also religious sect do not openly grass their own up.

That is fact and not long ago in the US of A an undecover operation smaashed a serious child abusing ring ni the JW sect. Also, how often ahve the church protected their vicars and other religious stalwarts when they have molested and raped choirboys?

it is not so much the offending by religous sections I am getting at but rather the protecting I do not like.

Hmmm... on this one I have to agree with you - all sectors of society should be subject to the law. There shouldn't be a 'Law for us, and a law for you' type thing going on.

Exactly.

I would never cover for anyone who seriously broke the law or did anything to their children which I considered illegal or unjust.

maybe I am too critical of religion but I feel that people who decide to devote their life to a cause should follow their rules. I watch those American programmes, wife swap is a good one, where they claim to be gods people and in this instance they made a gay man sleep in the barn with pigs as they thought that was his position in life, they beat their children with a large bat and shot animals for fun.

This is why I am so anti-religion as I feel that people use ti as an excuse rather than a means to devote their life to a better way of living.

Angus wrote:

maybe I am too critical of religion but I feel that people who decide to devote their life to a cause should follow their rules. I watch those American programmes, wife swap is a good one, where they claim to be gods people and in this instance they made a gay man sleep in the barn with pigs as they thought that was his position in life, they beat their children with a large bat and shot animals for fun.

This is quite an exceptional case though - I'm sure the majority of religious people have nothing at all to do with this sort of behaviour.

You think?

I will agree that the minoirty of religious people who really do practice their faith are above this, but how many familys go to church on Sunday and still beath their children? Still refuse to accept gay people as equal? Still refuse to accept black people as equal? (KKK are extremely religious people.)

I may sound like I hate all religious people and that is far from the truth. I can not stand people who say "It is gods will!" when they have done an illegal act (A lot of Christians who murder say that.) and then criticise anyone for things like smoking etc.

Just totaly hypocritical.

I suppose living in a very Catholic country makes me feel very differently about stuff like this. I find it distasteful because I know that it upsets people that are religious and most of the God fearing people I know here really are sincere in their belief. The church is much more part of community life here than it ever was for me in the UK.

Angus wrote:

You think?

I will agree that the minoirty of religious people who really do practice their faith are above this, but how many familys go to church on Sunday and still beath their children? Still refuse to accept gay people as equal? Still refuse to accept black people as equal? (KKK are extremely religious people.)

I may sound like I hate all religious people and that is far from the truth. I can not stand people who say "It is gods will!" when they have done an illegal act (A lot of Christians who murder say that.) and then criticise anyone for things like smoking etc.

Just totally hypocritical.

But how many people don't go to church on Sunday and still beat their children? Still refuse to accept gay people as equal? Still refuse to accept black people as equals?
You talk about it as if it's the majority of religious people committing such acts, rather than (as I truly believe) the minority. You just hear about the ones who do far more.
I know what you mean about people pleading 'God's will' but realistically - these people are exceptions, not the rule.

I am sure there are many good people who use the church for the right reasons, assuming the right reasons are to prey and worship their lord.

Sadly, I know of that many vicars, priests etc who end up being charged for indecent acts and others that are moved on and never mentioned that it makes the church a lauhging stock in England.

Then there is the hidden land rental and such which is never mentioned.

But C of E isn't the majority is it ? It's a small minority surely compared with other religions. Yes, I knew about the land rental. Most of Plymouth city centre is owned by the church and they really are rich. To my way of thinking the Church of England's very history makes it questionable at best, being formed because a King could not get a divorce !

From a French woman, I do believe.

Well that got me, didn't it ? Is that the effect that the French have on English Kings ?

Thingywhatsit wrote:

But C of E isn't the majority is it ? It's a small minority surely compared with other religions. Yes, I knew about the land rental. Most of Plymouth city centre is owned by the church and they really are rich. To my way of thinking the Church of England's very history makes it questionable at best, being formed because a King could not get a divorce !

I doubt' that, its the official religion of the state and has seats in the House of Lords and although I couldn't find any stats online, I would say it has the lions share of the 72% of the population who claim to be Christian.

(and I have to agree with the divorce point)

Yes, but the majority religion in the UK must be battling with all the other new religions of people that have made their homes there.

Angus wrote:

From a French woman, I do believe.

Afraid not - Catherine Of Aragon was Spanish.



He beheaded the Frog...

Fantastic.

*notice our newly crowned A level Historian missed that one*

Ahem... whoops...