London bomb averted ?

Ziggy! wrote:

You only need listen to phone-ins on all stations to hear Muslims just crying out for a voice to have their real say, instead of being branded fanatics and so breeding these attacks.

Conspiracy F.M ??

Mauri wrote:

Britain is a prime target BUT as a leading western nation with a big Islamic population and an ally of the U.S. we were ALWAYS a target. IT WOULD BE NAIVE to think that if we pulled out of Iraq all this would stop! In fact if it were interpreted as a sign of weakness or a victory for the terrorist that it could make things worse! How long before we would be targeted by by Islamic terrorist for our 'Liberal' gay laws, or our refusal to recognise Sharia Law? Or even for the crusades?

Sorry, but I don't buy that at all. We were not a major target before Tony got himself stuck up GWB's ass.

One of the most frustrating things that I find when talking about terrorism is the simple refusal to accept that, weather we agree with what they are doing or not, there will have been some kind of catalyst setting it off.

It is unbelievably arrogant to suggest otherwise.

Here here. Sharia Law my ass. This is thier voice we have strangled since 911. I think we patronise Muslims when we read stuff like Maruis twaddle.:>

[quote="drewboy"]

Mauri wrote:

One of the most frustrating things that I find when talking about terrorism is the simple refusal to accept that, weather we agree with what they are doing or not, there will have been some kind of catalyst setting it off.

It is unbelievably arrogant to suggest otherwise.

The catalyst is religion, fanatical religious beliefs. Foreign policy hasnt helped and is a contributing factor to the wave of radical recruitment, especially in this country, however by staying out of Iraq wouldnt have made us safe.

Ziggy is implying without Iraq, we wouldnt be attacked, so in that respect hes very naive. The extremists hate our secularism and our traditional links with the U.S , thats reason enough for them.

drewboy wrote:

Sorry, but I don't buy that at all. We were not a major target before Tony got himself stuck up GWB's ass.

One of the most frustrating things that I find when talking about terrorism is the simple refusal to accept that, weather we agree with what they are doing or not, there will have been some kind of catalyst setting it off.

It is unbelievably arrogant to suggest otherwise.

Iraq has allowed the terrorists a focus for their actions and it has allowed a focus for recruitment BUT if we had not taken poart in the war I don't believe we would be free of attacks. The cases in Germany and Canada suggest that in the mind of the jihadists westeren nations are all targets even when they were opposed to the war. Let us also remember the attacks on 9/11 were on American soil BUT they targeted a building that was symbolic of international trade knowing full well that many different nationalities would be killed.

The sad truth is that while Guantanomo Bay is an outrage in the eyes of most muslims when extremists act they site western values (free speech in the case of Rushdie and the danish cartoons) or western liberalism (the freedom of women etc ) as justification for their attacks. In this respect any western country is target and we have to face up to this.

And to answer Ziggy's point about what ordinary muslims feel from what I have heard most moderate muslims are just angry with the extremists for blackening the name of British muslims in this way and frustrated that the self appointed leaders of Islam in the UK are not being vocal enough in their condemnation of these acts.

They-the Saudis-targeted buildings of AMERICAN strength. If Bin Laden did it the reasons were about 5000 US soldiers based in Saudi,nea rits holy cities of Medina and.... his home country.

Already two of the suspects from the weekend bombings were known to police, hence the snap arrests. What if its MI6 stoking the resitance? Bringing them down at politcally expedient moments, say to back up Browns new legislation he annouced to 2day. Im open-minded, but not stupid. Its the timing that makes me feel its stae collusion.

It's very simple to look at the amount of attacks we had pre and post the decision to go into Iraq.

Yes, we will have been a target, but not a MAJOR target.

And I truely believe that all this the west is great and islam isn't rhetoric that is continually said does not help the situation.

drewboy wrote:

It's very simple to look at the amount of attacks we had pre and post the decision to go into Iraq.

Yes, we will have been a target, but not a MAJOR target.

And I truely believe that all this the west is great and islam isn't rhetoric that is continually said does not help the situation.

There is truth in that but I think extremism/jihadism was on the rise well before Iraq as was evident by 9/11, the invasion of Iraq was used as a focus for the terrorist groups and the UK 's involvement in this was also a factor BUT whatever happened in Iraq I think terrorist actions would've been stepped up in the West in general and we as a leading western nation with a large homegrown islamic population were always under a greater threat than others. After 9/11 as attack on the US become more difficult becuase of increased security there the jihaidst will have turned to 'softer' targets nearer to home and as a long standing ally of the US were were always going to be in the firing line.

I also don't see 'the west is great Islam isn't' rethoric at the moment... most commentators and politicians are at pains to point out that the terrorists who calls themselves Islamist are ABUSING the concept of Islam and that Islam itself is a peaceful religion. Where is this rethoric coming from? Of course we are still justified to criticise Islam or any other religion or philosophy if/when they advocate violence toward or inequality towards women, gays or try to stifle free speech but those are values that we should stand up for against anybody.

Once Londonistan shat on its own doorstep, post Iraq, it was round up time. Most of the worlds terror groups had offices here before 911.I agree there are people here who are capable of Glasgow and Lndon attacks...clealry,but MI6 seem to be orhestrating this like the CIA did with the French to kick off Vietnam.

The ONLY peope that benefit from terror attacks are the goverment and the intelligent servcies. It would not suprise you to hear they budget review for MI5 & 6 was underway this month.

Your niave to discount state collusion.

drewboy wrote:

And I truely believe that all this the west is great and islam isn't rhetoric that is continually said does not help the situation.

I've never heard rhetoric like that ??

Ziggy! wrote:

The ONLY peope that benefit from terror attacks are the goverment and the intelligent servcies. It would not suprise you to hear they budget review for MI5 & 6 was underway this month.

Your niave to discount state collusion.

Mock the concept and it tuck away. Its nice and safe there. If I was a Muslim terrorists I would hit the people centres like Nottingham and Brum-then people would take note. But they dont,which begs the question whos playing who here..

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2115832,00.html


I read this very interesting article today written by a former Islamic militant about the reasons behind terrorism. Makes good reading.

Ive read their stuff before.They are trying to bump their status,as they are with this article, jaw jaw, not war war crowd. The guys that blow themsleves up state Iraq as one of the main reasons, and dont get involved in any groups. These attacks werent happening before the Iraq War.

WormThatTurned wrote:

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2115832,00.html


I read this very interesting article today written by a former Islamic militant about the reasons behind terrorism. Makes good reading.

A very interesting article and I think it explains a lot of what has been happening in the last few years.

Iraq was used as a focus for Jihadist action. the terrorist existed before Iraq but the grabbed the opportunity to use Iraq as an excuse for their iwder agenda. Are we really supposed to believe that without the war in Iraq all the terrorist would've gone away? I supect that without Iraq another excuse would've been found.

Ziggy I think is lost in his deluded view of the world filled with cospiracy theories and secret political organisation orchestrating the terror to justify the grabbing of oil. Well if it is orchestrated by some 'secret power' They've done a very bad job of it.

They've managed to alienate many muslims they've turned most of the Middle East against the West and rather than secure Oil supplies it looks likely if Iraq descends in to total anarchy and this spreads across the region that the major Oil supplies will be in control of the very people the West don't want to have that power...

I prefer to believe the '*Bad word* up' theory. The terrorists are out attack Western ideology and the International community not just US/UK managed to screw up Iraq post war...no conspiracy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6272168.stm

Its Muslim pub talk, groups like the above. The guys who blow themselves up are doing it because of the UKs involement in Iraq and Afghanistan. But no one in power is letting that case be put or authenticated becase it shows the goverment as partly responsible for 7/.7, which it is.
Read John Snows excellent biography and he lays out the direct link between most of the worlds conflicts and empircal oil grabs. Jihad has been raging for forty years around the world and most of the groups were based here to fund raise. We invaded Iraq and so they shat on their own doorstep so its round up time.

I love how you see everything so clearly as though you are some great messiah - like the oracle in 'The Matrix'.

Great movie!
The broadsheets lay out how last weekend attacks were motivated by the Iraq invasion, the guys training as doctors amongst the carnage.

Wheres Mauri:>

OK.

Which article to believe? The one by the 'ex' terrorist, or the one about political motives?

While neither are particularly apealing, one stands head and shoulders above the other.....

I think theres a lot of truth in both articles.

Ziggy! wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6272168.stm

But no one in power is letting that case be put or authenticated becase it shows the goverment as partly responsible for 7/.7, which it is.

Im amazed you think 7/7 isnt a conspiracy or for that matter 9/11 !!

7.7 isnt. But both 911 and 7/7 could be intelligence services complicity buy their failures. MI5 and 6 expect huge budget bounces next week. The anthrax attacks on Capital Hill wer eon the morning of the senate metting to decide the CIA budget bounces,post 911..

Anyone spot Joe on this forum?

http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000140.html

Ziggy! wrote:

Great movie!
The broadsheets lay out how last weekend attacks were motivated by the Iraq invasion, the guys training as doctors amongst the carnage.

Wheres Mauri:>

So caring committed doctors who were so shocked by the carnage in Iraq decided to cause a bit of carnage in the UK... something doesn't quite fit...

Apart from the fact that the majority of the carnage in Iraq is now caused by Al Qeida or the terrorist 'insurgents'

Joe=Phil=Ziggy...?

They left a suicide note. Its on the CNN website, laying out their gripes over Iraq. Why come to the UK to make apoint about Sharia Law in a country that had sjust that where they came from?
The IRA started through some prominent doctors. Its that mix of simmering hate and fixing up people blown up and beaten by the oppressors that makes you want to fight back.
Im always confused why you patronise Muslims by saying this is about extremism and Sharia Law, than over straight forward anger over foreign policy. How can you feel the benefits of Sharia Law if you blow yourself into one million pieces. You are lapping up the goverment hype that steers you away from the real reasons-our foriegn policy,post Iraq.