London bomb averted ?

Ziggy! wrote:

They left a suicide note. Its on the CNN website, laying out their gripes over Iraq. Why come to the UK to make apoint about Sharia Law in a country that had sjust that where they came from?
The IRA started through some prominent doctors. Its that mix of simmering hate and fixing up people blown up and beaten by the oppressors that makes you want to fight back.
Im always confused why you patronise Muslims by saying this is about extremism and Sharia Law, than over straight forward anger over foreign policy. How can you feel the benefits of Sharia Law if you blow yourself into one million pieces. You are lapping up the goverment hype that steers you away from the real reasons-our foriegn policy,post Iraq.

Well by the same token you are lapping up the terrorist spin by justifying the violence as some kind of struggle for freedom.

I'm not denying the fact that some people feel justified in adopting terrorism to attack the west for perceived attacks on them but these people are usually misguided by the rhetoric that is put out by the terror group leader who have a very different agenda.

The line that is sold is that the Iraq invasion was an attack on Islam not on a nation state. The 'justification' for the violence is that the values of Islam are under attack by the 'corrupt' values of the west. The agenda is put forward as a clash of ideologies which is why there is also violence associated with offensive cartoons or 'offensive' books. By stating that the terrorist are simply resisting or trying to free a country from western imperialism then you are justifying their actions. This is clearly rubbish in any case since the situation in Iraq moved on from simple insurgency once the UN was attacked and when the terrorist were targeting Iraqis.

The problem with you Phil is that you see everything so black and white using your perculiar conspiracy ridden logic the truth is much more complicated, yes Iraq stirred up a lot of anger against the West but there is also a more sinister agenda by the extremist and the terror groups that predates Iraq and this is really lies behind the attacks.

Of course anyone who blows themselves into a hundred pieces is misguided dude!!!

The last thing I do is see everything in black and white. I just stand back , look at history, and see whats the most likely senario. These guys are fighting the war in Iraq by proxy in the UK. The sinister agenda by the terrorist is a response to our disgusting duplicity around the world. If Muslim fanatics invaded Brighton and enforeced Sharia law you may well be angry enough to resist. Your just lapping up the Labor party line that this is about ideology. This is about oil and our support of Israel and its not ever going to change. And for that reason alone the goverment of the day will never entertain the fact that these guys are responded to our illigal occupatiom of the worlds second most lucrative oil supply, BP and Shell already set to earn about 10 billion by 2020.. This is one of the reasons why the global warming hype has kicked in since Iraq was invaded, hyponitic windmills making us think theres plenty of oil out there to f**k up the planet. Well there isnt and where there is oil its going to cost lives to get it.

Noones saying that foreign policy isnt a contributing factor. It is a huge contributing factor in regards to recruitment. The extremists would be missing a trick if they didnt use our suspect foreign policy against us BUT the ultimate goals of the extremists are based on idealology IMO.

Are you telling me they want to convert people to their ideology by blowing themselves up?.

The people who are blowing themselves up have been brainwashed.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,,845725,00.html#article_continue

Heres a useful link - its Osamas Bin Laden's 'letter to America'. Lots of detail accusing America and its allies of crimes in the middle east but also lots and lots about how Allah is the one and only religion and how The West should embrace Allah so that Islam can reign supreme.

Have a good read over this text - it explains a lot why we are in the situation we are today. When you are finished, ask yourself whether you still think idealology isnt an ultimate aim of the militants.

Brainwashing! That would be about right.

George Bush inst looking for Usama anymore...What does that tell you.

THE PEOPLE BLOWING THEMSELVES UP ARE SAYING ITS ABOUT IRAQ.

THE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT BLOWING THEMSELVES FUP OR SHARIA EARTH ARENT.

Hey,weould could havea fund rasing concert for Al-Quieda. I bet Bono and Madonna play it.lol

I've provided firm evidence of the role of idealology in extremism.

Over to you, provide some evidence for your opinions now.

I wait with baited breath.

Cleary there are extremists that want to bomb capitalism out of Iraq,but thats ridiculous in the UK. With one in three Muslims in the UK drprmdasnt on benefits they know what side their breads buttered. The attack in the Uk are about Iraq, and a response for it. The ones that talk of an ideolgy battle are there,but there not the ones commiting suidice.

Still waiting.

WormThatTurned wrote:

Still waiting.

You may want to break out a camp bed and some provisions.

The Brit governments intelligence guy-Adam West- is talking about a Muslim extremist uprising for 15 years. One question:why only 15 years? And why call them racist attacks. Isnt that incitment?
This is all fear mongering to hide the fact these attacks were about Iraq.

Still waiting

For what?

Christmas I think

Mind you I wouldnt mind someone summing up the last five pages of debate on one clear post for my lil benefit

Still waiting for evidence that our Government and intelligence services are involved in terrorist acts in this country so that it benefits them.

Well the intel services will get massive budget increase next month. The last five terror trials expose the intel services were watching the bomberts well before the attack. Just 2 weeks after 7/7 guys on the watchlist were allowed to attack the tube?Come off it!.

From what Ive read there are thousands of terrorist suspects known to the intel services. They cannot watch every single one 24/7 unless the intel budget is one hundred times higher which isnt feasible. They have to prioritise who they think are most dangerous. Maybe thats why the budgets are being increased and some suspects managed to slip through the net. Where is the evidence to the contrary ?

The are clealry watchig the wrong ones.Or are they? What if they wave through the ones that will fail or cause limited damage. In the recent fertilizer plot the guy who bought the bomb ingredients was released with out charge. Could he have been MI6 under cover guy?

So its gone from definate to 'what if' and 'could he'

Of course its not definite1 Just trying to make a logical conclusion.

Or illogical depending on which way you look at it

The next bomb will be in a sattelite town of London. It will coincide with the annocements of the charges on the cash for honours scandal. There would be no reason why terrorists would pick that day.

The 4 Somalias that were sent down yesterday used Iraq as their defence in court. I can contemplate their lawyers suggesting that. But they still named that as the sole reasons. This isa sophistaced war betwen the stae,Iraq, and us.

Ziggy! wrote:

The next bomb will be in a sattelite town of London. It will coincide with the annocements of the charges on the cash for honours scandal. There would be no reason why terrorists would pick that day.

The 4 Somalias that were sent down yesterday used Iraq as their defence in court. I can contemplate their lawyers suggesting that. But they still named that as the sole reasons. This isa sophistaced war betwen the stae,Iraq, and us.

Well this shows what a sham it all is, four Somalis (!) are bombing British people in response to Iraq...what sense it there in that? Are bombs in Britain what the majority of Iraqis want as a response to what is happening or would they rather have peace. This shows how the terrorist are 'fighting' in the name of someone else FOR THEIR OWN AGENDA! the real reasons have little to do with Iraq and more to do with hating the west...

Mauri wrote:

Well this shows what a sham it all is, four Somalis (!) are bombing British people in response to Iraq...what sense it there in that? Are bombs in Britain what the majority of Iraqis want as a response to what is happening or would they rather have peace. This shows how the terrorist are 'fighting' in the name of someone else FOR THEIR OWN AGENDA! the real reasons have little to do with Iraq and more to do with hating the west...

Yes - they hate the west. Thats the whole point. The west seem unable to actually accept that there are reasons for this that have nothing to do with the ideology behind our society.

This hatred was already there. Of course it was. however, Iraq heightened our involvement and made us more of a target.

The rest of the stuff ziggy is on about? Not a clue.